Harsh treatment of young EMPLOYEES, or not, comments please?

this forum is mainly for farriers - all are welcome but don't enter if you are easily offended!

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PNB
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Real time enquiry. Rate for the job!!

Postby PNB » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:37 am

Fordy,

Regarding your last comment!!

Then, are you going to keep the DAILY BLOG alive.

PNB.

I will pose you a start off question regarding the time taken out of the work place by a farrier, in order to undertake committee and other related advisory/supervisory works.

Could you suggest a suitable hourly rate?? [and compare it with a Car Mechanic or CORGI plumber expectations/turn over after payment for his durables/expenses]. I know one farrier expects to earn £400 per whole day plus expenses, for each working he is away from his normal working area.

Is this a fair rate. [Equivalent to one horse an hour]!!

Anybody??

PNB.



PNB.

csc
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Postby csc » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:41 am

£400 per day may be the takings but not the earnings

PNB
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Postby PNB » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:51 am

Stuart,

Good point!!

PNB.

Italian stallion
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Postby Italian stallion » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:55 pm

pnb,
To answer your question a simple no he must be on some white powder or somethig.
Peter i would never have someone like that working at our practice as john always points out money before standards is not the way foward, i would love to see every horse shod by him in a day then maybe we could all have a laugh in the pub later.

Regards,

E.W.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:42 pm

EW,

Hypothetically, I am going to take YOU a young qualified fully employed, self employed farrier out of your normal work place and ask you what you would expect daily as recompense for the money you would turn over in your workplace.

This is a serious question. Are you saying £400 [8 sets a day], which I suspect is the case is to much or is it to little??

Help me here, so how much is one worth to your own business??

PNB.

csc
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Postby csc » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:58 am

may bee 7 sets at £60 OR 6 SETS at £70 or even 4 sets at£100 or 12 sets at £35 most people can do 8 a day unless they travel great distances 4 or 5 sets daily seems to be the average
the guy charging £35 will earn £240 whilst the guy whilst the guy doing whilst the guy doing 6 will earn £330 so one guy doing twice as much work for less its simple maths

PNB
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UKHSA consult! "Oh", to be young and fully employe

Postby PNB » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:52 am

Stuart,

Thanks for that, I was approached to consult about the a suitable day rate for a fully qualified and life experienced self employed farrier, what would be his conservative daily turn over, [9 hour day, 5 days a week].

Thanks, you roughly, no exactly accord with what I thought.

PNB.

Any one with other thoughs, or reasoning why these rates are outside the norm , please comment??

john ford
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Postby john ford » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:17 pm

Why don't you all try a little harder in looking after your own business's and stop looking over your shoulders trying to find out what others earn. There is one fully qualified ex-farrier down here who shod day-in day-out doing the numbers game and charging what he could get away with, who has now at the age of 43 a busted back, and is now driving coaches for a living. And whilst we are on the subject of who earns what, you maybe interested to note that the Inland Revenue may well be looking at this web page at this very moment. Grow up and keep your nose out of other peoples private business. If I want to employ a fully qualified farrier for £300 per week, and he/she is happy to do so, then it's no one else's business but the two people who agreed that contract.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:59 pm

John,

What are you going on about. Its common knowledge that a Newmarket Farrier advertised a post in his business with a £50k wage. Simply it seems that is the rate for a qualified life experienced farrier employee??

It seems then you agree with Stuart's costings??

PNB.

PNB
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Busted Back. Employee health and safety!! Preventable??

Postby PNB » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:43 am

John,

Young men with busted backs, an interesting introduction to the debate.

I have a feeling "BUSTED BACKS" that don't relate to a specific injury [horse falling on farrier], may be an accelerated condition due to the farrier getting under horses before his bones were fully mature.

It follows if this is the case early physical breakdowns of our backs could be retarded, our well being then being extended to a later stage of our life.

John how do you feel about this?? I know you started your shoeing life quite late having had an earlier career in racing, so the above late start to our farrier lives applies to both you and I.

PNB.

macfee
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Postby macfee » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:07 pm

Look Learn Listen the basics if you have a question ask, the basics of a TRADE and not the money, then one will go far.....Stuart

PNB
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Busted back@43 years old. Forwarded communication JB.

Postby PNB » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:50 am

Daily Blog.

John,

There is a contract sheep shearers analogy here. Their optimum working life span is calculated to be 21 years!!

Is this same formula not relevant to farriery?? Is that not the nature of the job path we have chosen to follow??

Sheep shearing is also back tough, 7 years becoming perficient, 7 years at their peak output, 7 years on the slide before the shearer goes driving trucks!! An analogy??

So if they/we haven't made their/our wedge, paid off the mortgage and reared the family in 22 years at 42, the fall back is upon other farriery related earning elements to sustain. [Committees, Education, Assessment, Employment Training]. The problem being when this group becomes dominant and the group that actually do the job, recessive!!

With a farrier median group age @ 46, JB rests his case!!

PNB.

john ford
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Postby john ford » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:36 pm

As I said before Peter, why don't you look after your own house instead of looking over your shoulder as to what others earn. Horses need to be shod to keep them working, NOT to make them airborne. If as you say farriers working life is shorter due to the work they do (which may I add I don't agree) then so is a footballers. But do all footballers earn or get the same amount? Earnings in farriery is dictated, to how good you are, what area of the country do you work in, and what type of shoeing one does, and to a degree what type of lifestyle you wish to live, and that last one is a personal choice. If a person is happy with the life they have charging lets say £45 per set on four sets a day, why are you or anyone else shouting the odds of foul play against another farrier charging £80 per set and doing 10 sets a day. And the same applies to apprentices regardless of the laws of the land. If I were an ATF again, I would be saying to my apprentice, do you want to be a farrier in four years or not, if the answer is yes then you will get paid when you work, and nothing when you don't.
Because I'm not only teaching you a trade, I'm teaching you to be self-employed at the end of the apprenticeship.

PNB
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Mr Heartless.

Postby PNB » Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:10 pm

John,

It is "YOU" that are preoccupied with what other farriers earn, not I. I don't really give a dam, provided I have enough at the end of the year to pay "ALL!! MY TAXES" that's fine with me.

The debate started because one of our peers needed to know what the appropriate charge was in order to fulfill a contract, not I. I can work out for myself what I need, mate!!

My concern is really about farriers maintaining their health into old age!! Your man that drives a bus did something wrong, if as you say his back is bust is the reason he had to stop being a farrier!! If you reduce that with you persistence about earnings, an assumption could be made you surely must be pleased with that outcome, as it is one more bit of Pucklechurch competition out of the way!!

I can tell you, I am devastated every time I hear of one of my peers being crocked, and on several occasions, we [several of us in LAMBOURN and again those in NEWMARKET] have needed to work our comrades round, until he was able to continue his work as a farrier himself!!

I feel it is you that need to "get a life", as you observed earlier, and consider the welfare of others who strive for sometimes to eke out a meagre existence, within the trade they have chosen!!

PNB.

john ford
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Postby john ford » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:23 pm

So you think that the farrier that is offered a job at £50,000 a year will only be expected to shoe 5 sets per day, 5 days per week, over a 48 week year, I don't think so, cause spinal injuries spring to mind paying that kind of money.

macfee
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Postby macfee » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:52 pm

To avoid back pain... simple put th price up.... then see richer or poorer..Stuart Mackay


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