Stressed horses fitted with restraining devices. "Twitc

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PNB
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Stressed horses fitted with restraining devices. "Twitc

Postby PNB » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:19 pm

All,

Following two significent head injuries sustained by Farrier "A" and Groom "A", when a farrier was attempting to re-shoe a horses in competition. The backgrounds being, in incident one, a third party fitted a nose twitch to the horse, which led to the horse attacking farrier "A". In incident two, the horse simply blew up and attacked groom "A" who was holding its head.

A request has been made that UKHSA formulate "A Code of Practice" to give direction to farriers involed in shoeing Aggressive and Agitated Equines it Hi-Competition/Stress situations.

Presently the establishment view is, [which is unlikely to change], any experienced, farrier or horse carer/groom who works on/with horses in a competition/stress situations take responsibility for "THERE OWN HEALTH AND SAFETY".

I personally think that is a fair assumption and it is down to a farrier and attendant senior grooms, to work with other "Equine Care Professionals" present to optimise the health and safety of every one present!!

We however move into a grey area, when by an unspecified, " Third Party Decision", a restraining device, [Twitch or other device] is fitted to the horse to attempt a compliance, which causes the animal to rampage.

Suggestions, for back ground detail for the formulation and publication of a "Code of Practice" in these situations, are requested please.

PNB.

csc
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Postby csc » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:47 pm

you said it peter its down to the farrier to make a decision if it needs a twitch maybe more advisable to walk away

macfee
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Postby macfee » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:19 pm

All young horses should be educated with kindness and reward, having their feet picked out picking up legs front and rear, it also gos for older horses broken late, its a bad state of affairs when a horse has to be twitched for the farrier, i would rather have the horse doped, some horses are very clever when they see the twitch and react to escape the pain which makes it a dangerous situation for the farrier who is underneath i have not had to use a twitch since my army days, i still carry one on board the horsebox just incase, if the horse is violent or simply untrained walkaway from the job if you are a oneman band, its not your job to train and show them how its done but advise and come back when it is safer to work around the horse think safe at all times, you have no control over who is at the other end of the twitch unless you trust them and have worked with them before and can read the horse and warn you if a situation is iminent, half the horsey world i would not trust as they do not have the experience of handling iffy horses, WALK AWAY from the Job, the only person i knew was PABLO KING no horse argued with him and shoes were put on like it it or lump it and charged accordinly, think safe heros get medals, farriers get mullered.......Stuart

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Twitched horses, unstable tempered, agitated or stressed.

Postby PNB » Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:25 am

Mcfee,

Walk away, the best option!!

Suggested Preventive Measures :-

1, Avoid working in confined spaces, essential to leave unobstructed escape routes.

2, Lead Rope of sufficent length to allow holder to move away. Poor Old Farrier he has his back to the action and can not overview the situation, therefore he must depend upon the level of competence of those third parties who have control over the holding controlling end of the process!!

3, Any Twitch must be of correct the dimensions.

4, It is essential, Hard Hats are worn by those in attendance except the farrier, heads and fore heads are nearly always the injury sites, following twitch application.

For the farrier, a hard hat impedes vision and freedom of movement, his most basic first line of defence!! Having observed that I personally use protective head gear on about one horse in a thousand, the ones I feel from their history and my experience of them are the most likely to "MULLER ME".


5, I personally decline to work on a horse fitted with a NOSE TWITCH, or for that matter on most occasions any restraining device which is suggested by third parties!!

I do however upon my own experience, use a Lip Chain as routine on unruly horses, normally alone with a long lead looped over my arm, and the horse loose. More an educational device than one for control purposes. The exception to this rule are "Squally Fillies", when a fully competent assistant to start with, is essential, this is until I get inside the animals head!!

I extend "A Thank You", to my great mentor, the late Bob Carter, and to Monty Roberts and Garry Witherford for your common sense and advice throughout my lifetime!!

PNB.

PNB
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Gary Witherford. [CPD, H&S]. Shoeing "A Claustropho

Postby PNB » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:54 pm

All,

Hot off the press!!

Available shortly from "EQUITECH".

Now in the can, a 30 minute H&S/CPD, DVD, which includes an interview with Gary Witherford [world famous horse trainer/whisperer] and An Eminent Veterinarian, it regards the use of restraint devices on horses in stress situations!! and what steps are suggested to avoid serious physical trauma injury, as a complication of close contact equine handling.

PNB.

csc
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Postby csc » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:50 am

equibolocks hot of the press and for only £5.99 you can have a magic wand and a free bottle of cure all

PNB
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Postby PNB » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:18 am

Stuart,

Hadn't expected a reply along those lines, we were lucky not to all be going to the farrier's funeral this week!!

The farrier received a head [possibly avoidable but who really knows] blunt force trauma that knocked him senseless and required hospital treatment, [after the race meeting finished!!]. "Quite Lucky??".

The chance happened to make a comment on the event last night, a cameraman was on hand, was it wrong to grab the oppertunity??

I hadn't thought about the possibility of there being a charge. You know my thoughts, CPD should as far as possible be available at ZERO cost at the point of delivery!!

PNB.

john ford
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Postby john ford » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:44 pm

Word has it that Peter Baker is now in charge of every farriers life, and whatever happens to him/her, Peter will make sure that yet another rule is put in place. If we keep on enough Peter may supply 6 boxes of Andrex for us all to wipe our own backsides with.

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Postby PNB » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:47 pm

John,

I suppose we shouldn't expect anything positive!!

PNB

macfee
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Postby macfee » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:41 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: Very funny :roll:

PNB
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Polite?? Maybe not!!

Postby PNB » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:31 am

Today's blog.

John,

The following E Mail communications were received today from persons who, well its self explanatory. What ever it contains two very relevant questions, which Fordy you may like to have a stab at.

Questions] 1, "Perhaps he should be asked what has he done to help H&S in National farriery training? And what else he plans to do in the future? Or is he just going to stand by and just hope that no-one gets hurt rather than at least give something a try?"

Comment] 2, "As for the reaction on UKHSA if I were less polite I might suggest to Fordie that 6 lorry loads of Andrex wouldn’t be enough to deal with all the ---- he comes out with, but then I’m not like that."

PNB.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:01 am

John,

Your quote, "that yet another rule is put in place". end quote.

That is just my point, a third party [LANTRA] ,are putting together "Another rule", well set of rules presently.

This Quango, are by law supposed to be doing this in full view of and under consultation with the farriers on our register, how ever another group not the actual working craft, and the Bare Foot Trimmers on mass, have got into the view of LANTRA and are constructing the outline and formulating the rule. The Rank and File, Blue Collar Craft have at present been excluded from even having a public view of even the draft document [see below thread], yes its got to the stage of a formal draft document. Even the bulk of the craft that produce and employ the majority of the UK apprentices [Racing and Polo] are excluded from the formation grouping!! Your elected members on FRC and FTAC also do not form part of this grouping.

So JOHN you are now shooting at me!!

WHY??

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Open note to John Gilpin, Equitech.

Postby PNB » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:37 pm

John,

Today got your draft copy of the DVD, looks interesting and has to be of value both for "Close Contact, Difficult Horse Handling", Preventative/Defensive/Protective Measures as they relate to "Health and Safety", both from the viewpoint of, Young Entry trainees and Mature CPD.

This should have a wide interest to both Young Vets, The Racing Industry and every one else connected with the handling and safe control methods when working with "Lit Up Horses"!!

I hope the equine establishment will take it on board!! Just maybe they will have to, which seems to be the case having just read this week's H&H, regarding the respective liabilities for any "INJURY" caused by equines!!

Thank you for your efforts, it will save injuries if not lives!!

Speak soon,

Regards,

PNB.

All, [DVD hopefully should be available in a couple of days].

john ford
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Postby john ford » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:04 pm

Peter I'm shooting bullets at you because you are the representative on council, but you seem to aim all your grips at us on these boards. We can't do a dam thing so whats your point. Unless you spend more of your time convincing others on council to your way of thinking, you are wasting your time shouting the odds about anything that comes up. Being informed is one thing, changing it is a completely different issue.

PNB
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Written question that can't be ansewered in the negative!!

Postby PNB » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:25 pm

John,

You have all the power mate !!, it is you that doesn't choose to use it, "HE WHO PAYS THE PIPER CALLS THE TUNE", you are only dictated to, as you don't seem to care what is happening to OUR craft. You put me in office to make things happen, but while you keep snipeing at what Stuart and I are striving to achieve, you raise doubts regarding the crafts resolve and the crafts support for its elected reps.

I will point out one thing as an example which causes me to question!!, the FTA recently undertook their own quality satisfaction survey, from my enquiry at FTAC it seems they asked questions that couldn't be answered "UNSATISFIED", whatever way the respondent replied it could only be interpreted as ATFs being satisfied FTA clients!!

The response was 95% of the ATFs [ later declared to be 200 ??] were satisfied, but what was it less than 25% of the 200 ATFs responded to the survey!! The detail of the follow on phone QDP survey are almost impossible to verify, understand or follow!!

In all operational areas, [apart from knowing how things are, ie, Understanding the role of ATF, Who to talk to at FTA, Detail of what farrier qualifications are, Knowing their apprentices are being assessed], the FTA came out as below average when compared with 67 other UK Training Providers!!

I have to ask why?? when we have fantastic stewardship in Sefton House [my assessment!!, and the senior employees there, applaud the work done by their staff, and the result to their own survey was a 95% ATF satisfaction. Yet how when compared nationally with other UK training providers the results were very weak.

So where is this farrier training system then breaking down?? and why is it ??

PNB.

csc
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Postby csc » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:50 am

peter i disagree with your comment that the training system is breaking down i see no evidence to support you on that point
however you comments on the satisfaction survey was spot on i personally found then to be simplistic and with only a positive outcome available also i was surprised that mr ablett went along with it as it seemed a wast of time and money to me as it achieved nothing it just oils and greases the machines viability and respectability you see john if a person puts forward a paper or opinion as a statement that is always accepted not questioned .
members within the frc fta accept what information is put in front of them without question peter is trying to motivate questions and thought because at present a small handful are making the decisions and the frc and fta are not democratic you are aware as elected members on fta we have no vote so what is the point of us being there we could resign only to be automatically replaced by wcf personal again this would justify the dictatorship that democracy was being adhered to.
what peter is doing is trying to openly debate issues that might be of interest to individuals
you dont have to agree that defeats the object but hopfuly with reason a clear view will eventualy be done when all is heard
you must all be aware that i belive that the frc and fta meetings it is just a formality for record

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Postby PNB » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:19 am

Stuart,

The breakdown I refer to, is regarding communication, involvement and TRUTHFUL centrally published outcomes!!

PNB.

csc
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Postby csc » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:28 pm

so stop going round the houses and say it in the first place

john ford
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Postby john ford » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:51 pm

But Stuart, that would only give Peter one short paragraph to write, leaving him with hours to sit about twiddling his thumbs.

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Postby PNB » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:39 pm

John,

I suppose we have to accept you for what you are.

Any suggestions??

PNB.

macfee
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Postby macfee » Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:53 pm

Straight to the point gets the attenttion,, not hot winded airs, then long winded replys as to why or ,may prevaile Stuart you are on the right track, say what is right and not by bended ear...... Stuart

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My over view of the situation farriery registration.

Postby PNB » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:23 am

Stuart and Stuart,

OK, The Worshipful Company of Farriers through their minions seem to control every thing to do with farrier registration. The blue collar workers don't get a look in, let alone any say. Do they not feel any shame??

Or possibly, is it the minions within the Company those directly related to farriery, that deflect the good intentions of that Company, of which I maintain there are many, good intentions that is!!

How other than by subtle long winded comment; to suggest by implication, [which is here below universally condemned], or now your desired way, direct and short, is this anti blue collar workman involvement in our own craft, going to be permitted?? But I will need your support when I give you what you have requested!!

Maybe even, it is The Company that needs to rein in its minions?? and demand proof of the craft's active involvement.

PNB.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:32 am

Third paragraph above should read :-

Other than by subtle long winded comment; to suggest by implication, [which is here below universally condemned], now by your desired way, direct and short rebuke.

A question, Is this anti blue collar workman involvement in our own craft, going to be craftsman permitted??

We will need support to get change!!

PNB.


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