Apprentice Training Concerns. NFTAB, GET A GRIP.

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PNB
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Apprentice Training Concerns. NFTAB, GET A GRIP.

Postby PNB » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:10 am

All,

It seems the administrative structures of apprentice training in 2009 are not making/reaching their marks. The dis-satisfaction with outcomes of examinations and the employment restrictions, [which seemingly are only in place in order to draw down central funding], are a detachment of what is actually required to undertake tasks of farriery in the street in contrast to what is being summarily assessed within the training systems, this is taking its toll on employment good will. 17 NVQ[3] failures from 17 students taking the NVQ 3 assessment!! was reported at one college a couple of days ago!!

It is reported college formative assessment has got to the point, of similar responses to, "No its not good enough and the shoe being slid back across the table"!! then nothing else!! This attitude towards any ongoing "FORMATIVE ASSESSMENT", is leading to apprentice dissatisfaction, a feeling of helplessness, and the under mining apprentice/employer confidence, leading to a mistrust in employer competences. "Horse shoeing seemingly to the apprentice, is one thing at work, and another something completely differant at college"!!

A dissatisfaction then kicks in, leading to employee [apprentice] employer breakdown. Formal central welfare intervention then seemingly is not about support and mediation, but it seems intervention is about driving wedges between employees and employers [4 clear examples I have been involved in during this term on FRC, two involving lies and doubtful documentations and avoidance of answers due to supposed Data Protection!!], all leading to a total breakdown of employer/employee relationships. With no one that is in the training loop accepting failures within their systems!! Every failure being loaded towards others, where the employee/employer have become little more than rubber toys being kicked by which ever "BUM ON SEAT" feels like doing it!!

The result being active consideration is being given to the employment farrier workers from other parts of the world, those part trained by our standards, yet qualified to work here in the UK!! The phones are reported to be hot from Northern European Farriers seeking Employment here [to satisfy the Border Agency], as Qualified Improvers. Look at the current state of play in Newmarket if you need examples.

The employer UK farriers are walking away from employing UK young entry out of necessity/ restraints/ and what they see as oppression!! 400 a year ago, to the last reported 200 now!!

A question, "Is percieved central administrative oppression a reality or a figment of imaginations ??

PNB.

PNB
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Thin Red Line. A little bird asks??

Postby PNB » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:43 pm

Anyone,

Can anyone tell me where the line is drawn between a "WELFARE ISSUE"
enquiry/visit and a "DISIPLINARY INTERVIEW"??

Is it adjudged by it's latter outcome??

In the event of a three way employment/terminate-able training contract, can either of the 3 signing parties undertake disiplinary interviews against either of their co-involved signatories?? or are all parties jointly liable for any unlawful or unsocial outcomes??

What are the employment law protocols about 3rd party representation and detailed recording of interviews??


PNB.

john ford
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Postby john ford » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:29 pm

I suppose it has never occurred to you Peter that the ATFs maybe at fault somewhere along the line here? ATFs have the apprentice for far longer than any School of Farriery college. Also the ATF knows the criteria and standards expected from the apprentice well in advance of him/her attending college. If the apprentice is having problems getting up to those standards, it is the ATFs responsibility to make and give time to the individual in order that they are fully prepared when attending college, rather than asking that apprentice to shoe another ten horses in the week. Or leaving them on their own in the forge making so many mistakes that the problem becomes a natural mistake that they can't get out of doing.

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Postby csc » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:40 am

welfare issue: when a third party acts as a mediator between master and apprentice
disciplinary interview: when the third party warns either master or apprentice if something is not sorted disciplinary action may be taken
hows that peter

PNB
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DOUBLE STANDARD. If you Can, do, If you Can't then Teach&quo

Postby PNB » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:13 am

John,

You have just highlighted the nub of this whole matter, Thank You John.

This has been mentioned and agreed at both Council and TAC, many times. Yet gets avoided!!

Your Quote: "The ATF knows the criteria and standards expected from the apprentice well in advance of him/her attending college",[ end quote].

John, this/it is not what our CRAFT do in every day practice!!. [Is this you speaking John?? sounds a bit like a college talk to me!!]

The PRACTICAL "National Occupational Standards", [note OCCUPATIONAL] these have just been redrafted and published by LANTRA, [not a blue collar farrier within 20 miles of the LANTRA drafting agency], a document some 13 sections long which I guess if taught in its entirety would need a full time apprentice college attendence, or somewhere about a 10 year apprenticeship.

Our salvation is that a great part of NOS's has to be GUILETTINED, before the NOSs are transposed into NVQ's [note VOCATIONAL] in practice. THE REALALIST verses THE IDIOLOGIST, seems to be the game on.

This process is presently going through a committee stage at present, yet "the working blue collar craftesman" it seems is going to find it difficult to get a say at the formation committee stage, the polo, racing, sports craft thats my area of gripe, well lets see?? I am assured the craft will be consulted but only when a document has been drafted, [Do farriers or even serving craft elected representatives have several days to do document amendments?? It doesn't happen, save by one or may be two].

History demonstrates this type of committee favours "Blue Collar Exclusions at committee stages rather than inclusion, [Something highlighted by my brother, and then again by Stuart when he was chairman of Profession Allied to Veterinary Services Grouping [PAVs], both resigned due to exclusion from consultation and physical inputs, this was mentioned and agreed at TAC on 21st October last!! [By the way PAVs has just been disbanded].

PNB.

PNB
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Accord yes. Caviette Emptor!!

Postby PNB » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:17 am

Stuart,

Your Quote: "when a third party acts as a mediator between master and apprentice disciplinary interview: when the third party warns either master or apprentice if something is not sorted disciplinary action may be taken
hows that peter".

That's what my professional little bird told me!!

But in practice how was it for YOU!!

PNB.

csc
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Postby csc » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:55 pm

well peter you know what those bent bastards are like at one time i had more charges against me than a Serbian war lord . and then well harassment etc etc but peter we both know how bent the regime has been and i say has
lets hope things have changed for the better now they just send threatening letters but seriously i would like to think things are changing and the only hiding place for them now is ........... i don't want another threatening letter at the moment

john ford
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Postby john ford » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:00 pm

Stuart and Peter, you agreed to a point with my last posting, so why not leave it there or work at it, to make sure it happens across the board. You should not let personal grievance's control your thoughts or actions for the whole state of the apprenticeship we have in place.

PNB
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Opinion!!

Postby PNB » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:28 pm

John,

Whilst we draw down central goverenment funding for farriery apprentices training things won't change.

Sadly: there are to many snouts in the farriery apprentice trow, for no educational benefit!!

PNB.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:32 am

Stuart,

Your quote, "i would like to think things are changing and the only hiding place for them now is ........... i don't want another threatening letter at the moment". End your Quote.

"Things are changing??", well maybe on the surface!. I am mindful and still smart at the thought however of a Daily Telegraph leader from June 1996 [or was it 1995 ??] anyway a month before the then FRC chair of council and the then Registrar was were dumped from office following a WCF "UNPUBLISHED" committee of enquiry report. The newspaper leader was, "Farriers body accused of shoddy budgeting".

So John, you think we should walk away quietly, even when as in one instance, the last registrar, walked away with what seemed to be a FRC 4x4 vehicle about a year old, at half its cost price!! The FRC auditor bought the matter before council at the AGM, then nothing!!. But Why Nothing??

I have to ask things may be changing but by how much??

Stuart, Tell me what does your missing word start and end with??

PNB

csc
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Postby csc » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:50 am

john don't worry we were just reminiscing i would like to think that things have changed and i believe this forum and the people posting on it have made a contribution to that
one thing that has always puzzled me how come the RIF RAF got away with the motor one would have thought the new chief should have inherited it
BENT BASTARDS in the ........


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