Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

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PNB
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby PNB » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:38 pm

Moonman,

No, I don't agree.

Research done by you ?? Little evidence of any!!

Seems, you didn't even read the posting regarding a guilty plea to charges heard by a UK Magistrates Court and that in those circumstances, it in no way proves a charge or confirms any LAW as being a valid one.

It seems we will have wait but a little while, to have a Judge hear another case or even an appeal !! That is providing the FRC have the balls to dance on the knife edge of risk to their own employed status!!

In fact, I wait with great interest regarding the consequences of your above little efforts. Fears are raised if my many historical correspondences and cautions between FRC and myself.

I feel encrypted strengths/weaknesses held within our Farriers Registration Act flag up great risks, regards what is Farriery and what is a Horse Shoe. If taken before a Judge for clarification I foresee great risk to future Farrier Registration, if the meanings of related sections of the Registration Act and that the resulting outcome matches those lodged within a written Qc's opinion held by Council, one originally obtained and lodged by myself.

For a formal judicial clarification, it seems funding is there!! As can be read, is detailed/summarized on line at:- (hoofcare+lameness) clarification which would clear ambiguity, I have little doubt!!

PNB.

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby PNB » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Now on line free.

Goggle :-"Equine Barefoot Care National occupational standards".

See the National Barefoot Occupational Standards approved by FRC when I was on Council, Ram Roded LANTRA, under the guidance of a FRC Councilor/Vet.

PNB

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby john ford » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:08 pm

Yes Peter, what are you trying to say?????????????

Legal aspects
(n) Implications of the Veterinary Surgeons Act
(o) Implications of the Farriers (Registration) Act 1975 as amended
(p) Implications of animal welfare and other relevant legislation

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby PNB » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:27 pm

Moonman,

I am not trying to say anything, just showing any one who is interested that "The Foot Trimmers National Occupational Standards" have just come online [free to view],to my knowledge for the first time [I think]!!

I intend to contact LANTRA in order to get Certificated!!

PNB.

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:32 am

So it says here in Mr PNB's post:-,

"See the National Barefoot Occupational Standards approved by FRC when I was on Council"

So I have a look and sigh!!!

the good ol boys in the FRC are not getting the point,,, the barefoot community doesn't give a toss if something is approved by them or not, especially a document written by LANTRA,,,that is an initial attempt to control the barefoot community.

who in the barefoot community did Lantra consult for writing this document?
Who was on the team, who were the authors, lets see their bibliography, who consulted
Was , if any barefoot hoof care professional consulted,, a shill for the "good ol boys" at the frc? most likely,,,, because the frc has lots to loose!!
Why would the paper lords (good ol boys) at the frc even think that the barefoot community would fall for this trick of letting the frc control them?

Look to the german model when the barefoot community sued the statuatory body for trying this sort of rubbish on.

Its the same ol tricks,,,,, get them in close, pretend we are on their side, then pull the carpet from under them once they agree. black magic really.

If the frc want to play at the negioting table, maybe they should read the chapter CU5A in their Equine Barefoot Care National Occupational Standard which is titled:-

" Establish and maintain working relationships with others" The English metal farriery leaders have no concept of this statement.

The FRC have to come to the negioations understanding that they cannot control the barefoot industry, they can only be a member at the table,,,,, that is,,,, if we let the barstards. Because as it stands now, the FRC have to prove a poly flex wrap is a shoe, which it isn't, the foot was prepared to accept a shoe , which it wasn't,,, and maybe the work done was a first aid measure because a metal head farrier wrecked the foot completely, and the horse could not walk from sore souls or otherwise. And they know they cant.

So the FRC's approved barefoot industry standard document is quite frankly a shill document. They can root my boot.

Sincerely,
BIg Iron

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby john ford » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:45 pm

And your real name is ????

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:01 pm

Word Sword

Cedric
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:03 pm

Big Iron said " a metal head farrier wrecked the foot completely, and the horse could not walk from sore souls or otherwise. "

What a peculiar statement !

metal headed? I presume he means a farrier who is capable of forging a remedial shoe to veterinarian specifications.

Sore souls ? Perhaps we should consider equine spiritual welfare as well as physical needs ! :roll:

shill ? That one gets past me, I have no idea what it means.

It seems to me that Big Iron, ne. Word Sword is an exponent of the Barefoot trimmers mantra. He will do no good to their cause by heaping unfounded allegations on other farriers work.

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:21 pm

So the FRC comment,

and send cedric, oh my!

They come with abuse and accusations , failing to bother reading the previous to get jiggy with it.

If abuse is all they have got, they ain't got nothing.


For clarification, The word metal head farrier describes one not willing to embrace new technologies that have now been spinning around in the hoof care world for the last 15 years. Its not their personal fault so much, the uk system breeds this type of tribalism, and locks them in. The way out is to read and watch what others are doing differently.

Cedric, seems to ignore I'm a working farrier, and knows not I have a anvil and forge at home too, he seems to advocate being able to make a vet-suggested shoe as legendary and most needed. I'm capable of it too dude. In fact a metal shoe is only a toe bend, heel forge and quarter bend. If a vet suggests a shoe its only a variation of the bends and forging. Whats the big deal?

Interesting the amount of keg shoes being sold, and fitted cold these days hey! Did you see kercherts advertisement on their website about how many keg shoes went on to her royal highness' horses?

Shill---- that's a cracker,,, the time it took for you to write a sentence about it and try and divert folk away from the comment ,,, you could have googled it to look the word up. Here it is for you from Wikipedia :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Shill : a plant or stooge who helps an organization without declaring an alignment to that organization, and helps the cause via usually dis-ingenuous methods.

Unfoundered allegations apparently by me,,, I know exactly what happened to a farrier mentioned on this thread when he got the sack by a customer for doing damaging work to a horse, so how dare you even suggest a lie otherwise shill boy. What would you know. Some of your Dip WCF guys are wrecking horses shill boy. Whilst other Dip WCF guys are doing great work.

I know exactly what is happening in the farriery industry as it relates to me, because I am a farrier, I put metal shoes on horses.
Why is it you try to heap un-foundered accusations on me and the barefoot industry.
Why is it you announce half truths, and publish findings other than those mentioned by the courts in your press releases.
Why does the frc have to bullshit and hijack ?

You FRC guys have a lot to loose, the whole industry is walking away from you.

Via your own actions the frc is sliding down a steep cliff with their fingernails bleeding trying to hold on. whilst the barefoot industry is dancing for victory.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

Cedric
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:24 pm

Hi Big Iron, I took your advice and looked up the term "shill"

It was exactly as you quoted above - "Shill : a plant or stooge who helps an organization without declaring an alignment to that organization, and helps the cause via usually dis-ingenuous methods."

However if you read a little longer this alternative is given - "Shill - What conspiracy theorists like to call people who don't believe in their wacky conspiracy theories because they're a part of the ignorant masses and who ignore the so called 'evidence' of their theories."

You pays your money and takes your pic !! :lol:

Cedric
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:40 pm

I still find Big Iron's posts somewhat peculiar.

Apart from rambling he is verging on the parnoid.

I , apart from being a Registered Farrier, have no connection with the FRC and do not speak for them in any way.

I have never made any accusations (heaped or otherwise) about him or the barefoot industry. In fact, if you read my last para. I could be seen as helping by suggesting some of his wilder comments are not helping their cause.

And what was the comment about keg/machine made shoes supposed to convey? Totally irrelevant.

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Cedric,

You sound like Fordy, denying the house is purple when its really purple.

It doesn't look good on yourself, if you attempt to make me look silly, it only reflects on your own ability to engage. It might sound cool sitting around with the boys during morning tea time, but it makes you look foolish. Try and maintain some dignity dude, your customers are reading.!

The comment on keg shoes was a reply to your comment on the ability to make shoes,,,,,, remember you tried to say how talented and educated and qualified farriers are because they could bend steel to a vets suggestion. The keg shoe issue is meant to reflect just how often farriers make shoes these days ,,,Kerchart and St Croix are sure doing well these days hey.!

This particular argument is one that has surfaced many times on this forum regarding how silly the current uk apprenticeship is.

How many shoes have you made in the last year to fit an actual horse on an actual work day compared to your keg shoes. Lets exclude training if you have an apprentice, and lets exclude competitions if you go in them. How many boxes of keg shoes have you bought this year?

Try not to sound like Silly old Ford too much. Make an attempt to be decent.

Big Iron

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:53 pm

At the end of the day Tom bowyer has broken the law he has taken his punishment like a man, I feel the courts have been to hard on him.

Hoof wraps hoof cuffs hoof cast are one of the same thing as both I and Peter baker should know as we have fitted hundreds of them, to cast a hoof and not cut out a v section is foolish and dengerous, I have nothing against this product being used by barefoot trimmers but the proper training is key.

Ive spent time in the USA and in the uk in the correct use of this product at great expense so therefore cannot condone what Tom did to this horse.

Regards,

E.w. :drinking: :drinking: t

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:25 pm

Dear Italian,

fair enough and well put.

What did Tom do to the horse, please enlighten us.

And if you will, please don't regurgitate any bollocks from the frc press release on this issue, because its bollocks.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:27 pm

Hi big iron,
Well get straight to the point he cast the hoofs the first visit, a vet attended the horse for lameness issues.

Tom on his second visit casts the hoofs for a second time knowing that the horse had been treated by a vet.

The key to go relations and effective treatment is direct communication between the barefoot trimmer and veterinary surgeon.

Tom I'm sure always had the best intentions, however by failing to adhere to the above he failed himself and the equine in his care.

I wish Tom the very best I don't hold with beating people with a big stick as I feel Tom has been treated.

Regards,

E.w.

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Egg on faces!!

Postby PNB » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:32 pm

EW,

So how in the Devil's Name did a civilian [a Craft Unregulated FOOT TRIMMER] fall foul of the mighty FARRIERS REGULATORY BODY the FRC, the prosecutors of TOM. The FRC seemingly used their regulatory might and court experienced legal team at the Welshpool hearing, then even initially used farrier derived funds to met the costs £1000, [later to be compensated by the court [as DECLARED]?? so who was pulling the strings here?? Is another farrier related body involved here??

Seems then the FRC are/may be working closely with someone else !! Can anyone see any linking relationship here??

I suppose all registered farriers should be mindful of others moving into a control on "Farrier Registration", Do we farriers need to watch our backs??.

In the circumstance you outline in Toms prosecution, it simply seem it just raises an RSPCA issue however without any INTENT on Tom's behalf.

So again I ask "WHAT IS GOING ON"?? and who was the complainant Veterinary??

PNB.

Cedric
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:18 pm

Oh dear ! It's the conspiracy theorists again !!! :roll:

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby PNB » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:11 pm

Cedric,

Conspiracy is that how you see?? We out here in the Street can not make head or tail of it.

Anybody??

PNB.

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:29 pm

Yes Mr PNB,

here here.

The frc is no one's friend, including towards farriers. control, manipulation, and monoploly is their game.

I find it strange when reading the frc press release on this case, the frc are proclaiming as truth that the vet said a screw somehow caused an abscess... heres the funny bit,,,, the court summed up that Tom did no damage to that horse. who does one believe, the magistrates summing up, or the shill vet the frc paid for. It doesn't count for much when you have to pay someone to bullshit for you.

yes, and so what if a vet is looking at a horse, and you do something different,,, one of my horses right now would be in the knackers yard if I didn't point out (the Vet) was suggesting putting the horse down because (the vet) missed an abscess. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes hey.

Whilst I don't particularly agree with Mr Italian Stallion, I respect he has an opinion, and he wrote in a neutral manner not abusing or attacking anyone, well done Italian.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby jaimep » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:32 pm

Not wishing to enter into any argument (why would I considering the abuse I've received previously on this forum which is a shame except that everytime it happens I seem to gain a few more clients) just answering a couple of questions and setting the record straight...

who in the barefoot community did Lantra consult for writing this document?

Me for one, and a reasonable cross section of the barefoot community both as individuals and organisations, EPA, UKNHCP etc.

The NOS was initiated by us (rather than the FRC as is being insinuated) because many of us were responsible enough to share the general concern a few years ago about how easy it was to become a trimmer and how many under qualified and inexperienced trimmers were out (apart from anything else it was not good for business as just a few bad apples can tar a whole profession).

Was , if any barefoot hoof care professional consulted,, a shill for the "good ol boys" at the frc? most likely,,,,
Actually that is not true (nice word though). We took the decision that the FRC (amongst others in the farriery and veterinary world) should be involved with the discussions as it seemed only reasonable/professional and responsible. Unfortunately some did not behave in a similar manner and tried to spoil the proceedings. Personally (and I know my feelings are shared with others in the barefoot world) I would have liked the document to have required a significantly higher standard but ultimately it was dumbed down in order to reach the agreement of all parties.

At least it is a start and as you know these things take time.

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:59 pm

I think you will find that prior to 2008 the Frc and Rcvs has expressed concerns about barefoot trimmers and got into bed with lanta to initiate a report on barefoot trimmers and dental technicians.

The Nos was initiated by Frc and the meeting to follow, you don't think that Frc and wcf were ever going to let barefoot trimmers have a penny of any funding that might come available.

Frc, wcf have set the standard for training for barefoot trimmers so that you will be governed by Rcvs and Frc weather you or i like it. Big iron can see the big picture or maybe the woods for the trees.

Regards,

E.w.

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby jaimep » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:27 pm

You see... I try to help...

In bed with LANTRA? Initiate a report? Dental technicians? Funding? WCF set the standard? FRC governing barefoot trimmers? Weather, woods and trees?

Your usual nonsense.

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:42 pm

You are not helping, you are not in the reel world, you might help bearfoot trimmers if you got with it instead of being led by the nose by the powers that be.

If you would like to help you could put out a statement warning trimmers not to cast hoofs.

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby jaimep » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:35 pm

Help further the conversation I mean (obviously). It is not my intention (here anyway) to help 'barefoot trimmers', in my experience most of them are more than capable of helping themselves and why would they listen to little old me anyhow?

What 'it' is it that you suggest I get with? And to which 'powers' do you refer? Please enlighten me. I'm not aware of being lead anywhere, by anybody, by the nose or indeed any other appendage!

I genuinely don't understand your apparently irrational hostility EW. Please explain.

Regards.

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:11 am

This thread is about Tom bowyer, not about your bullshit telling us about ever time you come on here you gain a couple of new customers.

It's all about you ain't it, I rest my case what a twat.

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby jaimep » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:46 pm

Well... It's about the FRC as well... :wink:

And it was PNB that brought up the NOS and Big Iron who subsequently suggested (a little disingenuously IMHO) that it was a sham of a document. I just wanted to point out that it isn't actually,and that a lot of good people (not from the FRC)put a considerable amount of time and effort into it. Now I'm sure at least some of those same people wanted the document to go much further, and to have much bigger teeth and influence (as I did) but as I've said it's a good start at least.

I'm sure from your previous posts that we agree there should be tighter control by the relevant authorities over barefoot trimmers? I see the NOS as a first step in that.

Anyway, you are right, none of this is about me, so please don't feel you have to perpetuate this line of conversation.

:fadein:

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:22 pm

This lantra document says a lot of times "What you must know and understand:-......" then it babbles stuff, and lots of stuff. 50 pages of stuff, and it blows me away you invited the good ol frc boys in the front door ,,only to discover they would only try for your back door!!!!
Do you get the drift now bro,,they are not out to help, only to control and manipulate,,,,,heil hitler

Then Jaimep you go on about "we all agree ,,, TIGHTER CONTROL ,,, for barefoot trimmers"
Control doesn't work bro, its for Nazi's, but setting a standard helps a lot.

In your next document try writing something like this..... and I quote loosely from a book written by leading (without-doubt) barefoot Hoofer or hoof rehab specialist author and practitioner - Pete Ramey,,,,,,,,,,,, are you ready........,,,,,,,here it is.:-

You are not qualified to trim a hoof unless you can safely and precisely identify the position of the sole (and other) coriums (in your minds eye).
(I didn't have the book handy for the precise quote,,,but there it is in its essential form.)

Since this is about Tom's stuff, and the barefoot trimmer case. I can bet my last shilling that Tom knew exactly where that horses' sole corium was, how to protect it, and how to grow a sole from it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, something most farriers think may as well be a Siberian concept ! And Yes it has been my experience that most barefoot hoofers are very well versed in the anatomy and functions of a horses limb. In fact it doesn't even take 'em 4 plus years to accomplish the knowledge. A week or 2 is enough for anyone who can read and comprehend.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:17 pm

Dear Jaimep,


Just so you know bro, my case in point was in reference to PNB's post when he informed the forum that the FRC have approved the lantra document some many months ago,,,, 2010 i think???. Mr PNB was acting informatively making a positive contribution.

The particular point in case I specifically have interest in is that, the "Hoofers" on the ground and barefoot industry doesn't give a rats brazoo what the frc approve or not approve. The critical mass is turning away from them, and leaving them with a hole in their bucket.

And I fully expect that any decent set of party's would , in good faith, invite frc to negotiation proceedings,,,, But now you know ,,,with out any more doubt in this whole world that barstards they were and barstards they shall remain to be. Leave em to rot in their own puke bro.

Big Iron.

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:46 pm

Big iron,
As you so aptly put it 2weeks to comprehend should be enough.

In Tom Bowyers case 2 weeks was never enough that's why he ended up in court, Tom does help run training days and in the light of wath has happened he for sure needs to take a long hard look at himself and the training he thought had.

Regards,

E.W.

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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby jaimep » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:12 pm

You could be right Big Iron.

:grin:

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:31 am

Tom Bowyer,
Has not followed the teaching of equine podiatry.

Home page for the Institute of Applied Equine Podaitry.

First thing to learn " sound reasoning sound horses"
Quote "DO NO HARM" KC La Pierre.

Paragraph heading " BOOTS"
At the end ot this paragraph it clearly states and I QUOTE. "PERFECT HOOF WEAR RAPS ARE NOT FOR HOOF CASTING"

How on earth Tom Bowyer is teaching people anything is shocking when he can't follow the basics of KC La Pierre.

I Felt Tom had been hard done by but not anymore after reading the homepage of IAEP.

The public need to be awear that some people are not fit to practice.

This case has opened the eyes ot the general public as for ep trimmers lack of insurance and insurance company making horse owners own insurance NIL and VOID if they use anyone other than a registerd FARRiER.

GOD SAVE THE HORSE.

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:41 pm

Dear Italian Stallion,

Your above post complete Bullshit.

Sincerely
Big Iron.


ps I can pull it apart piece by piece, but I have other things to do. I'll only pull apart 2 pieces to spread some truth.

Yes- "PERFECT HOOF WEAR RAPS ARE NOT FOR HOOF CASTING" is correct because raps or wraps are flexible,,have a bit of bend and twist in them to help the rear anatomy of the hoof )digital cushion and lateral cartilage) do its thing. The rear part of the foot is meant to bend flex and twist in 3 dimensions with every foot landing.

Tom's had heaps more than 2 weeks training, and knows his stuff backward and frontwards , probably more than most dip wcf guys. If you are to look at how long Dip wcf farriers have in pure anatomy training,, I'd say that Tom and his colleagues probably go well beyond them.

Now try not to be a prat and write too much bullshit.

Italian stallion
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:14 pm

I think you will find I'm dealing with facts straight off the EP home page,so don't try and twist the fact that Tom bowyer is a cowboy.
A cowboy like KC a real odd background this man has would you not agree.

And further more if you are a farrier you should no only a vet should cast feet.

Read the EP home page before you shovel anymore crap on here or are you an EP and not a FARRIER. :drinking: :drinking:

Big Iron
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Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:17 pm

Dear Italian,

no stuff it, i'm pulling your above post apart piece by piece.


Do No Harm ,,, you mention ,,, yes that right. it is the equine podiatrists and barefoot trimmers ethos to leave the horse in a better state than you found it in . Tom did no damage to that horse. The magistrate in Toms case, in the closing remarks stated that tom did no damage to the horse,, then the frc goons published a press release that contradicted the findings about horse damage,,, and now your stuff,,, so why are you on the bullshit train with this issue dude?


You are of the opinion (in a previous posting of yours) that polyflex hoof wraps, perfect raps, and casts are the same. They are not the same. There are I think 5 products on the market some are flexible polyurethane wraps ,,, some are in-flexible fiberglass casts. THEY ARE DIFFERENT. They do different things,,,,,,,, so when you are attacking the thing about perfect raps are not for casting its absolutely right,,,,they are not for casting,,,casts are for casting,,,, poly wraps are for flexible support.


Insurance- suing ( or taking civil action )... I recently read (a few times) a farrier text by a Fellow of the worshit company, it was recently published,2010, a good book but had far too many cowboy hats in it !!!! The author mentioned insurance and suing and said that as soon as an owner said this stuff he packed up his truck and drove away,,,,good move by by one of your FWCF. Recently it has come to my attention that (some of) DIP wcf farrier boys have a habit of doing the exact opposite,,,, as soon as insurance is mentioned,,,,,, well,,,,, that horse needs heart bars all round suddenly, with wedges, with pads, with impression material, with travel kilometres cost for emergency callout during guiness time. Then as soon as the insurance money runs out it split time,,,or maybe pull the shoes and see what happens,,,then hey presto the horse gets better suddenly during its barefoot spell. Funny that ,,some sort of miracle that defies the worshit company's best !!!

Insurance covering the costs of English farriers and vets is an ambulance chasing scam.

Italian, try doing No HARM yourself dude, and stop writing bullshit please. If you keep writing bullshit we have no option but to put you in the frc shill category like "Cedric Ford" and his ""dad" . Try to inform yourself of the facts please

Sincerely
Big Iron

Italian stallion
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:29 pm

You are the one posting bullshit to detract the attention that Tom Bowyer as he's a cowboy maybe I need to post him a hat .

I refer you once again to the homepage for EP so please no more bullshit are you the failed yank farrier that played hell with FRC to get on the register may be it took time because they thought you had false dos like KC.

Cedric
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: Lancashire.

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:56 pm

I have only just read Big Iron's post of Nov. 29th.

I am totally amazed at what he has written.

[quote]You are not qualified to trim a hoof unless you can safely and precisely identify the position of the sole (and other) coriums (in your minds eye). Since this is about Tom's stuff, and the barefoot trimmer case. I can bet my last shilling that Tom knew exactly where that horses' sole corium was, how to protect it, and how to grow a sole from it,,, And Yes it has been my experience that most barefoot hoofers are very well versed in the anatomy and functions of a horses limb. In fact it doesn't even take 'em 4 plus years to accomplish the knowledge. A week or 2 is enough for anyone who can read and comprehend./quote]

Grow a sole from the horses sole corium !!! Absolute balderdash ! Is he suggesting the removal of the old sole in it's entirity and allowing a new sole to grow ? This harks back to the long discredited "Strasser" technique. Or, perhaps that was before your time Big Iron.

A week or two to comprehend the complex anatomy and physiology of th equine hoof ??? This statement is beyond derision!

Cedric
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: Lancashire.

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:10 pm

PS.

Big Iron - am I correct in deducing that you attended an American Horseshoeing School ?

If so , could you please let us know the length of the course ?

Italian stallion
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:17 pm

Cedric,

You might find it was 2 weeks as he likes this number, that way he only need count on one hand.

Regards,

E.W.

Big Iron
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:39 pm

Dear "Cedric Ford"

ummm, yes the sole grows from the sole (or solar) corium you foolish boy. You say it is absolute balderdash to grow a sole from the sole corium,,, gee whiz son you have a lot to learn.

There is one thing you sore loosers will never beat me on is the knowledge of the equine foot. I have made it my point to know how it functions, whats in it and how it goes clip clop day after day.

No where in my post does it suggest to take back the exfoliating sole all the way to the sole corium to grow a new sole, thats butchery . It does say protect the sole, remember that word protect. It means protect. This is why I refer to you as Fordy's son, You deny the existence and function of the sole corium when it has an existence and function, Just like ford would. You silly boy.

You've just revealed to the readers of this forum that you, a registered English farrier does not know (one of) the function of the sole corium ,, which is to grow sole ( or sole horn) and yes it grows from the sole (or solar) corium you very silly boy.

After the sole horn grows a bit, and more is grown in behind it the sole may begin to exfoliate, remember that's the bit you use your knife on every day, remember that bit you silly silly boy. It exists (really) and grows out from the sole corium you silly boy.

You refer to the strasser method which I do not use, and it was developed by Dr Strasser for use on "way gone send em to the knacker" pathological cases. She is a very highly trained Doctor in vet science, and her standing in pathological cases deserves better than to be be-littled by a red -necked fool like you.

CEDRIC FORD< I cannot believe how foolish you have been to not even know how the sole is created, and where it comes from. Cedric Ford DipWCF (knows nothing about the sole of a horses foot).

If I went to an American shoeing school, like you suggest, I’m sure I’d know plenty more about the sole corium than you son.

Remember that thing called nutrition, and blood flow carries nutrients to the foot and yes the sole corium, which then metabolises into cell growth called a sole, you twit cedric ford ,, you have just made a complete and utter imbecile of yourself and your own ability at your chosen trade. Dumb as dogshit.

One of the facets of the campaign at http://fightingforthebarefoothorse.com/ is how owners are coming togeather and acting on their right to refuse imbeciles like Cedric ford to have any input into the care of their horses. I’m with them.

Cedric ford, (a diploma holder from the worshit company and FRC shill boy) you have completely missed a major piece of hoof anatomy and its function. Its the big round thing under the foot that is in between the hoofy bits. You silly silly boy. You have tried to make me look silly only to reveal your own poor comprehension of the equine foot. Silly, Silly boy.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

ps, I'd like to hear from some anatomy buffs In the new thread called "solar corium-the thing a sole grows from" ,,,,, sole corium for short
ps, I'd love to hear from the barefoot hoofers in a new thread called "too many apprentices"

Big Iron
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:35 pm

Since this thread of posting is about views on the barefoot case, and Tom B. I'd like to relate the above post back to that topic.

Tom knows whats going on inside an equine foot, he understands the sole corium, its position, its function(s). he acted to protect it, and assist the horse to grow a new sole from the sole corium by protecting the sole corium.

Any farrier that does not have this basic understanding I suggest just go and throw yourself in the forge, you'd be of better assistance that way.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

Cedric
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: Lancashire.

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:35 pm

Dear Big Iron,

I am certainly not trying to make you look silly, though I suspect I'd not have to make much effort should I feel the need ! :P

Your extended posts re. the anatomy of the foot have completely missed my point.

The term 'balderdash' was intended to describe your comments, not the existance or function of the solar corium.

Your actual words were - "how to protect it, and how to grow a sole from it". Two separate entities, the later of which is territory into which no 'barefoot trimmer' should venture, or for that matter, no qualified farrier, without veterinary supervision.

In addition, I do take offence at your derogatory misnaming of the Worshipful Company of Farriers. There is no necessity for such comments, they only serve to show you as a somewhat uncouth bigot !

Now, to your paranoid fixation with my nome deplume. :) I have no connection whatsoever with John Ford or any other farrier who may post on here and I suspect my anatomy qualifications are far beyond anything to which you may aspire.

Cedric aka "The Secret Squirrel". :wink:

Italian stallion
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Italian stallion » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:52 pm

Cedric,

Big iron is a one man band otherwise he would no the value of the WCF to all EP as a FWCF gives tham a little talk once a year with the hope they might not go off and cause harm or end up in court.

It doesnt always pay off just look at poor Tom Bowyer he did not listen, must have been dreaming about KC and how he could acquire some false documents.

Regards,

E.W.

Cedric
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: Lancashire.

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:39 am

I have copied below a post I made in reply to Big Iron, Dec 6th. on the Horseowners forum.

I find it most disturbing that the above rant has been posted on the "Horseowners" forum. I trust the majority of sensible horse owners (whether subscribing to the ' barefoot' system or not ) will take it with a pinch of salt.

Apart from spurious personal attacks on individuals it contains so many inaccuracies and downright untruths that I shall not even attempt to refute them individually, however , there are two I must comment upon. - no, there are three !!!

1/ Do horseowners really believe that FARRIERS DRIVE PAST EACH OTHERS HOUSES AND THROW RASPS THROUGH THE WINDOWS !!

2/ Historically agricultural horses were only shod two months out of the year ?? I think not. And what about all the other tradesmens horses, doctors, milkmen etc. ?

3/ I also know a metal shoe on place for more than two 6-week cycles begins to do severe damage to a horse’s foot. It has put shoes on horses 12 months a year and as such we see the damaged atrophy conditions that shoes cause. It aint normal. It aint good for the horse. In fact it is very cruel.

The later comment really does deserve the classification of 'balderdash' !

The entire post seems to be a propaganda exercise in favour of 'barefoot trimmers' liberally interspersed with paranoid ramblings,

I have nothing against the barefoot system, some horses will go well without shoes. I deciding whether to try 'barefoot' or not I believe horseowners would be wise to take impartial advice and not rely on a person who makes 90% of his living from 'barefoot' .

PS. Just to demonstrate ther level of Big Iron's knowledge, I started a thread on the Farriers forum about Milestone examinations, totally unrelated to the 'barefoot' issue. He seems to think it is an AWCF examination (a higher qualification), when in fact, it is an apprentice exam. To state that it is only to divert attention from his is trully paraniod.

Big Iron
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Big Iron » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:50 pm

I have copied my reply to Cedric Ford here

Dear "Cedric Ford"


In your reply you come with the 3 comments you most want to make,

What surprises me most, and should really be in your top 3 is you have no position on:-

1) the slander and defamation towards Tom B by the FRC in their press releases. You have no position on an organization administering an act of parliament that has slandered an innocent man, one of your collegues in the hoof care world;

2) the slander and defamation that UK farriers thrust on to the barefooters on these pages, you'd rather it go on would you?

Instead you would rather comment on the milkmans horse or make a judgement on my skills because I barefoot more horse than I shoe. So you are a sociopathic nut. You have no care, no feeling, no heart to see the injustice done towards an innocent man by a pack of tyrants. You really are a sociopathic nut.

My letter was to Jaimep , not you , you freak. Its none of your business, and it was put up on the owners page so they could see what a bunch of cruel thugs some of you are. Now its here, in front of the owners who read here. Plain as day.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

Cedric
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: Lancashire.

Re: Views about Bare Foot Trimmer Case

Postby Cedric » Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:52 pm

Big Iron – I quote a sentence you posted in reply to me on Nov. 7th.

“Its nice to see you write something without abusing me but you still insinuate I was born yesterday and I know nothing. Try to be nice. Try to be dignified. “

You really should read posts two or three times and let the red haze clear a little before you attempt to reply.

So far you have described me as --- dangerous-a sociopathic nut; psychotic thug; an insolent little brat and coward; a geezer who has no problem slandering a barefoot trimmer; a red-necked imbecile; I do not know the front end of a horse from the back; dumb as dogshit.

All very dignified !!! :lol:

In reply to your post, I do indeed have no position on the slander and defamation you refer to, I have no information as to any of these and therefore do not post suppositions.

Why you address the post to “Cedric Ford” I have no idea, see my previous posts where I refute any connection with any other farrier or the FRC.

In addition, if you post private letters on this public forum you should expect them to be read and commented upon by whoever sees the need, anyone doing so does not deserve to be called a “freak”.


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