MR bakers resignation

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csc
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MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:57 am

it was decided at council to accept Mr bakers resignation and he was thanked for his service over the years
his complaints regarding the chairman were not accepted
regarding minutes not being correctly kept the majority said they were
regarding not enough members there last meeting it was accepted there was a genuine mistake and carried forward to this meeting were they were all accepted .i was the only one to vote against rules and procedures
regarding accounts it was accepted that individual employees wages were not public and the council agreed unanimously that they were in order
it was felt that peter had not helped his case by refusing to accept correspondence from the frc which i agree
this is a brief outline and i am happy to answer further questions

PNB
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby PNB » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:44 pm

Stuart.

Of the ten questions I asked you address two, the change of the rules illegally which was agreed the comment was correct then.

Someone else agreed that the minutes were kept incorrectly then, if only a "MAJORITY" not all thought they had been correctly kept and recorded!! So that was in essence Correct as well!!

(*)When did I ask about Saleries?? my question had been addressed as to where/from which pot of money the NFTA/FRC's had Peter Abletts compensation money been paid? and had nothingto do with how much FRC/NFTA staff are paid!! I don't give a jot about who earn what and how much!!

You are wrong and council was mislead if they were told I didn't take correspondence from FRC, what I agree however to not taking a letter from the chair of Finance, as it was he that had refused to answer [my question (*) above] effectively a question placed from an FRC member through the chair at council [please everybody note], I did take correspondence from the FRC by way of the Registrar of FRC.

I still feel the chair of finance by refusing to tell Council where PA's compensation came from was preventing the net contributors to FRC [Farriers via their registration fees] from getting a true report of how their registration fees were spent!! [CONSTRUCTIVE ACCOUNTING]. It has/had to be unfair to our craftsmen and any complainent, that the chair of finance should have been nomonated to investigate any part of a complaint bought about by his ACTIONS!!

I await the Registrars fully detailed response [promised shortly] to the outcomes of my complaints [10 in detail] when I will reply more fully, and then outline how/what I feel the conributing craft need to do about the perverse way FRC function's.

PNB.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:36 am

the majority accept that the minutes are correctly kept
regarding mr Abletts remuneration it is included in the the pot of monies for wages. in the uk we are not allowed to see what individual payments are made it is different in the us .it is the same regarding a payout to a certain farrier the accounts were passed and agreed on a year ago, and i was stopped from discussing that persons pay out on that point
you refused to accept correspondence from the frc because you felt that the chair of finance was not appropriate if you still feel that might you consider a judicial review.
if you are not prepared to do that then the matter is closed as you will not make any progress

PNB
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby PNB » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:16 am

Stuart,

A financial settlement made to a person after his employment has been terminated, "WAGES"?? false accounting comes to mind!!

But it doesn't address my question, which pot did the money come from NFTA or your and my Registration Fees?? Individual payments made by a UK STATUTORY Bodies surely must have a visibility in so much as where payments came from, to whom they were paid, and were such payments approved by full council before being made!! on the last point I don't think they were!!

Judicial Review?? I can't afford this, more over in the big picture we know what has happened so a judicial review would serve little purpose.

The registration fee paying craft need to see what is and has happened to them and their money. It will then be down to the craft to do what its craftsmen fells is necessary, that Stuart is what I feel the farriers who elect other working farriers onto FRC want, and in a open, honest and a transparent manner.

Through "The Horses Mouth" and now by emails, we can point out to all as we see it, then fight for our/these objectives.

PNB.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:01 pm

peter wages or payment as a settlement whatever are personal and private end of story
the nfta and frc are basically the same thing and as we both know shove monies around however it must be noted that the nfta make a profit and it is this monies that go into a reserve
the nfta are a law unto themselves and and have done a lot in the past without the knowledge of the frc council ,only a chosen few are party to this. we have long stated that the council is only there to give credability to the nfta

PNB
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby PNB » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:37 pm

Stuart,

If the NFTA ["A so say not for profit organisation"] actually consolidates its monies into a reserve as you say!! Why do the NFTA need to raid Working Craftesmen's registration fees, without any referance to full council. What the hell is going down here.

I am even more unhappy after your last posting, surely someone else must have something to say in response to your last post!!

PNB.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:43 am

let me clarify that point the nfta receive more monies than the frc so technically they put more into the pot.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:46 pm

correct i have it first hand from chair of finance that is exactly how it was put to me

Italian stallion
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby Italian stallion » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:57 pm

csc, Why on earth would you take the word of the chair of finance after all the shit they shovel your way i just dont get you.

Regards,

E.W.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:40 am

ew
i am just trying to get the facts across as impartially and accurate as possible. i was asked to represent peter i did the best i could with the tools i had
at the end of the day it is YOU who must make up your mind to how things are
if i throw in my opinion at this point all i will achieve is lack of credibility and bias and if you read my election blarb i said i would keep you reported on the FACTS

PNB
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby PNB » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:17 am

Stuart,

Even more Perverse.

I am am a bit confused where you stand here.

Your quote"The NFTA and FRC are basically the same thing and as we both know shove monies around, however it must be noted that the NFTA make a profit and it is this monies that go into a reserve".

If you accept this, you accept that The NFTA Management Board have been given/assumed the power to raid The FRC Pot, which is yours and all other Farrier's Registration Fees, and seemingly something simply done under the board's own independent suggestions/actions/whim, [NB, The NFTA Management Board is/consists of an outside of FRC committee presently under the Chairmanship of H Cooper], and "The Money" they don't presently/at that time need for immediate use, is consolidated in The NFTA's own reserves?? What?? the reserves of A Not for Profit Organisation.

The crunch point here has to be this seems is a Third Party [NFTAMB] grabbing of Registration Fees seemingly done without referance before The Full Council!! [Your Suggestion], I am certain this falls outside of The Statutory Definition of Maintaining a Register of Farriers and its Two Statutory Committees, so how are they allowed to do this??

So where is the all powerful overarching "Worshipful Company of Farriers, honour bound to see lawful play within Farriery. Remember it's The Worshipful Company of Farriers that has a Statutory Duty held in part one of the Farriers Registration Act, "To Maintain Standards within Farriery". "The statutory/obligatory function?? The statutory watch Dog"?? My ass.

PNB.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:41 am

if you read what i said you would know where i stand i have tried to keep it as simple as possible

PNB
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby PNB » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:17 pm

Stuart,

Our postings of Wednesday "CROSSED". You must be physic :- The fact was you answered my enquiry as to where you stood before I asked you the question. Sad ain't it.

PNB.

ferrador
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby ferrador » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:29 pm

come on , you all know PNB has hit the button ,thats why you have all gone quiet , i for one would love the opportunity ro meet him in person and say please carry on with your good work .
You all know you will not back him , coz you are worried the so called rfc and wcf will tell you off and smack your bottom ,when will you farriers ever stand up and say fuck you and stand up up for themselves and stop kowtowing to arseholes that do not shoe or understand any protocol of equine footcare

john ford
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby john ford » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:52 pm

ferrador, it is people like you I despise. First of all you hide behind a non-de-plume, so we don't know who you are, when you call up for backing you have shied away from putting yourself forward onto the FRC to take Peter Bakers place. I and many others have done our bit over the years without a great deal of success because of the lack of backing from other members on the council. What you and many others don't understand is, no matter how passion et you are to change things, it wont happen unless others on council back your views. And you can scream as much as you like, but that is how Governments work. The only difference between the FRC and Government is that every five years the population can vote for change from the top to the bottom, but with the FRC the top stay in place and just a few at the bottom are voted for.

ferrador
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby ferrador » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:28 am

john yet again the old motormouth goes into overdrive , you know damn well who i am as do most , i am chris bunting an overseas based farrier ,i am not legible to be on the frc but would love the opportunity given the chance
chris

john ford
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby john ford » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:31 pm

Therefore mate keep your own council as you have no right to interfere in matters of the UK, just like I have no right to tell your country how to run things

ferrador
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby ferrador » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:07 pm

john i am a fully paid up part 1 uk registered farrier so bollocks to you , i shall personally ask the registrar about my position regarding the frc next week when i see her
chris

Italian stallion
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby Italian stallion » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:20 pm

Chris,
Going back to your posting with referance to pnb, you are spot-on peter has been the champion in all battles not for himself but only for the good of every farrier in the uk some of which have very little idea if any of how change will effect them.
peter has stood there and taken all the bullets for one simple reason and that because he's a reel man and a champion of all farriers and much more of a man than i and john and many others put together.
you can love him hate him but the very least we all owe him is respect.

Regards

E.W.

PNB
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby PNB » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:33 am

All,

The registrar has written to me regarding the complaint I made that the craft have no redress against FRC and the seemingly perverse activities of its senior appointed officers which were outlined within the complaint resignation letter.

I ask you to consider if you fell the matter was sufficiently discharged/dealt with?? So is the craft being taken seriously or for that matter given anything other than cursory considerations??

My feelings being, the involvement of you electing your fellows to represent you on FRC is just a poor quality WINDOW DRESSING!! Little more than a public relations scam!!

Please read the registrars below letter for yourself.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

"From Sefton House. 23rd Dec 2011.

FBH/5823.

Dear Mr Baker.

I am writing further to my letter of November 2011.

I can advise you that your complaint letter, Mr R Gulliver's [chairman of finance] response and a note of your subsequent response was included in the papers for Council's consideration at the meeting on 7th December 2011. Mr S Craig AFCL raised verbally the questions [those sent for/to FRC!!] that you had outlined in your email of 4 December 2011.

I have been instructed to inform you that having considered matters the Council concluded that it was content that the action taken by Mr R Gulliver and agreed that with respect to your complaint no further action was necessary.

The matter is therefore considered closed.

Yours Sincerely,

FBH."

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________-

All,

No other explanation was given or was forthcoming. None of the 10 questions posed to FRC [at very short notice!!] were answered or even adressed, these included financial records !!

Frustrated, I feel you as a Craft should be!! Whitewash it has to be!! Do you require any further action. My correspondences are posted above if you wish to use them!!

Anyhow, have a great New Year.

Best regards and wishes for 2012,

PNB.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:00 am

with all due respect peter YOU refused the paperwork with the explanations
i asked every question on your behalf and council voted against you thats democracy mate

PNB
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby PNB » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:07 pm

Stuart,

Sorry mate I sent the questions after I returned the Chair of Finance's letter, several weeks later in fact. You see the Chair of Finance was in fact involved in the failure to report details of how/where/when the FRC money paying for an FRC Staff redundancy was recorded, that as you know was part of what caused my resignation and the formal complaint about the way The Chair of FRC had behaved in not controlling the function of his Chair properly/correctly.

I further ask why did you need to ask my questions when the letter containing the questions had been addressed to all COUNCIL MEMBERS. If there was not enough time to circulate my Email/letter , it shouldn't have needed you to ask the questions, the Chair FRC if he had been efficient should have nominated someone, [assistant Registrar in the absence of the Registrar maybe]to read the document aloud to Council.

That is democracy Stuart!! By the way I started to compose the Email containing the 10 questions the day you phoned me to say Council were ""going ahead even after my formal objection" and hearing the complaint on 5th Dec 2011.

I hope one day the Craft will re-elect me to serve their interests on FRC, however as things are at present it would be a pointless exercise, as you so rightly demonstrate within your last posting.

PNB.

csc
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby csc » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:29 am

peter they gave you a proper hearing and went through your document . and there reply ,there was a meeting in its own right. your absence and your refusal to reply made any defence very difficult, and you did have sympathetic ears
as far as i am concerned this is now over and i will discuss it no further . you could take this to law if you so wished

john ford
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby john ford » Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:56 am

And from that last posting from Stuart Craig, all of the farrier’s under the Farriers Registration Act 1975 who want change, should realize that the only way you have of changing things in this world is to argue points with dignity and manners, and not to throw one’s toys out of the pram just because others don’t necessary agree with you on that particular day. Good representation requires those people who accept the majority view of a committee, yet continue to lobby for support at a later date. That even happens in the workings of national governments in democratic countries. Those people who walk away have lost the battle, and have no chance in representing any of their colleagues outside of these committees, unless they do the same as demonstrated above but through their representative with manners and respect. And if any of you condemn what I am saying here, just see what happened to Peter Baker with his way of aggression with little or nothing achieved in all the time he was representing you all?

slowhand
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Re: MR bakers resignation

Postby slowhand » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:23 pm

:drinking: HAPPY NEW YEAR!


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