Navicular

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Ronni

Navicular

Postby Ronni » Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:59 am

I would be grateful for your advice. I have a 17.3hh Dutch Warmblood who has just been diagnosed with navicular in the off-fore.

In February 2001, he wrenched a shoe off in the paddock (didn't see him do it, but shoe was severely twisted and horse hopping lame). X-rays revealed soft-tissue injury and a lot of bruising. After two-months box rest, he appeared sound and, despite my always feeling he was slightly shorter in the stride on the off-fore, competed in affiliated dressage last year and qualified for the Regional Champs, with some very complimentary comments about his paces. This year, he has been tender and slightly lame after being shod on the last three occasions and noticeably shorter in the stride on the off-fore, so was X-rayed again last week, with the above diagnosis. Sorry about the long, boring background, but thought it may help.

A couple of questions, please: Is it normal to have navicular syndrome in only one forefoot, or could it be that the bone was damaged in his injury in 2001? Presume that the outcome would be the same, though, and it would still be degenerative? In addition, there's still time for it to develop in the other forefoot? Would egg-bar shoes be the most successful, as another farrier is suggesting straight-bar, as he has always had a problem with losing shoes, both because he can't go out and behave like a 'normal' horse and secondly because of poor quality hoof wall.

He has the typical boxy, warmblood foot, which, while large against your average horse, is small to support about 750 kilos of athletic horse. Which do you feel would give more support to his heels, please?

I don't care if he's never ridden again, but don't want him to see my much adored horse in pain for ever. Would correct shoeing solve the problem as it's been caught early, or will he have to spend the rest of his days on bute? He's 10.

Sorry to ramble and thanks in advance for any advice you are able to offer.

admin
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Postby admin » Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:16 pm

Dear Ronni,

I'm sorry to hear of the trouble your horse has suffered.

To answer your questions:

It is normal for navicular disease to occur in one foot.

It is very unlikely that the navicular bone was damaged when he lost his shoe.

Egg bar shoes, straight bar shoes or normal shoes? Everyone has their own favourite. I prefer egg bars but others like normal shoes with longish heels. I would go with what your farrier is happiest with, and change if the result is not as good as you hope for - at the end of the day it comes down to trial and error in finding what type of shoe is most comfortable for your horse. Which gives most support - the one that fits the best!

It is generally believed that navicular is reversible if treated early enough, so hopefully he may make a full recovery, but your vet can advise you better, having examined him and seen the X rays.

That is my contribution, hopefully others may have more to add.

Good luck,

Martin.

Ronni

Navicular

Postby Ronni » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:16 pm

Dear Martin

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to reply and for your advice and cheering words - they've given me some optimism. I wonder if I could trouble you with one more question please? A friend has contacted me this evening to say that her 6-y-o was recently diagnosed with mild Navicular and her farrier has been using the "EDDT" system, which, in her words has "doubled the size of his frog" and he's sound again. I would imagine the "double" is a bit of an exaggeration, but wondered what that type of shoeing was and whether you are aware of it being successful, please.

Sorry to be a nuisance, and thanks once again for your help.

Kind regards

Ronni

admin
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Postby admin » Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:11 pm

Hi Ronni,

Thanks for your comments, we are glad to help. I think you mean EDSS, short for Equine Digital Support System which is basically a shoe with pads. I have no experience of EDSS, but pads seem worth considering in a horse like yours who has suffered from bruising of the sole.

Anyone else used EDSS?

Best wishes,

Martin.

slowhand
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 6:28 pm

Navicular?

Postby slowhand » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:41 pm

Hi Ronni
Just noticed your post. Xrays must be of good diagnostic value many are not. It is impossible for anyone not involved with the animal to give an opinion that could have any credence. However I would like to know how come there were compliments on the horses paces in a dressage comp. if you felt him going short because a blind judge would see a horse going unlevel and would tell you so! You cannot miss lameness in movement!
It was a very clever vet who looking for navicular changes spotted soft tissue damage! and if that was the diagnosis then it hasn't got navicular.Wambloods have very boxy upright feet usually with atrophied frogs and toes turned in. They don't tend to suffer from bruised soles as would flatter feet. It shouldn't need heel support other than correct heel length and if it was lame after the last 3 shoeings that does't sound like navicular. Based on the info you have given it could not be accepted as a horse with navicular. :?

rionahorse

Navicular

Postby rionahorse » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:52 am

Ronni,
The following is a posting which appeared on a UK farrier forum by a farrier who also posts on this site, the comment made regarding critical navicular being totally preventable with good farriery interested me most, my horse too was diagnosed with navicular in February this year, take a look at the statistics as to how many horses are diagnosed and lost to this every year, I myself know of at least 10 horses - you'll be shocked by the numbers. The posting is in response to many postings from barefoot trimmers around the world, the moderator of the forum, a farrier of 56 years saw fit to delete all these postings, selectively saving a few. Its a highly controversial subject now backed by many vetenarians and younger farriers the world over. We now have 6 barefoot horses, all competing at different levels & unlike many shod horses around where I live my horses are capable of 20+ mile hacks every weekend over varied terrain including lots of road work plus competitions (dressage/showjumping/cross country) throughout the week, the difference my research has made to the lives and well being of my horses is unbelievable. My story along with links to various sites can be found on
http://p221.ezboard.com/bbarefoothorses

PNB posted 6/2/04 10:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All barefoot posters, Just to put you in the picture, apart from laminitis and fractures, over which farriers have little control the other conditions you outline are rare and with good farrier practice are manageable and seldom cause a loss of more than a couple of days exercise.
Critical white line disease can been totally overcome, critical navicular disease with good farriery is totally preventable. We get a few worn out knees and other bits [stifles hocks], some soft tissue damage, all resultant from immaturity or traumatic injury [typically, slip ups, falls, kicks, RTA's], which can generally be / are accomodated with good farriery practice, remember by the end of their 3rd year flat race horses are recycled.
The few leisure activity animals in my practice usually live into their 30's, sound and happy, I don't really see many of the problems in this grouping that you mention as being critical, all are manageable with care, and certainly all are controllable with good husbandry even laminitis and fractures.
I would not say that there is a 100% success rate, that would give a false concept of the reality of my type of horse shoeing practice. Mostly we are not clinicians so none of the animals ever get chronic or critical enough to be given a percentage number. Giles, do you agree?? PNB.

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Postby admin » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:56 pm

There is no reason not to try the horse without shoes, as I have mentioned it comes down to trial and error in finding what is most comfortable for your horse. Some horses do well without shoes, others do not.

To say that navicular disease with good farriery is totally preventable is getting carried away rather!

Best wishes,

Martin.

slowhand
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 6:28 pm

Barefoot bollocks

Postby slowhand » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:01 pm

A well known racehorse trainer asked what I thought of this barefoot idea. I said as an ex-jockey and event rider I wouldn't like to ride at a fence in greasy ground without shoes and studs in some cases. The horse in question I had ridden previously and to describe her as ' a bit sharp ' was an understatement. Any way he opted for the barefoot treatment and in her next race she slipped going into the hurdle breaking a hind leg on take-off and broke a front on landing. :drinking:

admin
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Postby admin » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:06 pm

He'll save on his feed bill as well as his shoeing bill then, what a result!


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