Introduction. Southern Area Employee representative on FRC.

For farriers to raise concerns with elected Farriers Registration Council representative Peter Baker. Anonymous postings will be deleted.
PNB
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Introduction. Southern Area Employee representative on FRC.

Postby PNB » Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:05 pm

AGENDA ITEMS FOR FRC MEETING 1st March 2006.


All Registered Farriers.

I have been elected to represent you on FRC, I start my tour of duty on 1st March 2006 at the FRC AGM, a public meeting.

Thank you for your support.

Below is my election address, it is followed by my further contact details, please feel free to contact and speak to me.

The preferred method is to post to this board, that way any registered farriers reading the thread would be able to offer assistance.

_____________________________________________________________

MR P N BAKER AWCF – ELECTION ADDRESS

Sirs,

I have been a farrier for 40 years and work in racing and with a range of other horses in Wiltshire where I live with my wife and children. I have trained four apprentices. In my spare time I enjoy country sports. I am a member of NAFB&AE, Countryside Alliance, Union Country Sports Workers, a founder member of the United Kingdom Horseshoers Union.

I have previously served one term on the FRC as the NAFB&AE representative where I believe that I made an impact. I would like to continue as an independent, YOUR elected representative. I know the issues that affect farriers and I am prepared to shake things up.

The farriers on Council have never had much influence because with a few honourable exceptions they have always been more or less invisible. The six farrier members on council MUST be encouraged to work together to speak up for YOU, THERE ARE MAJOR PROBLEMS!!

Some of the issues that farriers tell us about are listed below: The Disciplinary process causes unnecessary stress and hardship to those farriers unlucky to be caught up in it. Anyone can be the subject of a complaint and there should be a more sympathetic approach from the FRC, seeking to mediate rather than trying to foster antagonism between the parties.

Training is organised to suit the FTS and not to benefit farriers or apprentices. There needs to be alternative routes of training available than the current FTS designed monopoly.

Overseas farriers are being allowed to come here and work with no qualifications. This should never have been allowed to happen and needs to be stopped.

CRB checks are being forced on us. It needs to be explained what happens when a positive result is thrown up by the checks. What sort of offences will result in what sort of sanction and why?

I ask that you consider electing farriers that are prepared to speak with their fellow craftsmen, listen then stand up for all of us that actually get their hands dirty. Stuart Craig and I are prepared to open up the current debates, to keep you informed of the issues that affect you, and to give you a voice.

Stuart and I use the Farriers Discussion Board on the internet at www.ukhsu.com/forum/ on a daily basis where you can feel free to speak with us and other farriers, or you are welcome to ring me on 07879 817175 to discuss any disciplinary matters in which you have become embroiled.
UKHSU WILL HELP!! PLEASE USE YOUR VOTE; IT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR CRAFT THAT YOU ARE FAIRLY AND MOREOVER DEMOCRATICALLY REPRESENTED. Peter N Baker.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can E/Mail me here,

pnbaker@tiscali.co.uk

PNB.
Last edited by PNB on Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:12 pm

John,

I am "getting into training issues", because a fellow farrier has requested me as his craft representative to pursue a perceived irregularity.

FRC have a statutory obligation to oversee and approve training at every level.

I believe that to get a correct over view of the craft's feeling in any regard, they must know and have an opportunity to get involved.

So I have to ask what point are trying to raise??. What part of this do you wish to know / find out about or give an opinion on.

Is it simply that you wish to have another child like dig at a person who wants to allow my craft to understand and debate what has and is about to happen to them??

I will make a suggestion once, unless you can make constructive suggestions and enter debate in an objective way, your postings to this specific area will be deleted and moved to the general discussion part of this site.

PNB.

awc
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frc

Postby awc » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:29 am

Happy new year to you all

I have not been on holiday i have been spending my time getting in touch with my fellow farriers and digesting everything that is going on, which has included reading all the bulletins on this and other sites. I have had problems getting on my computor and sending posts recently,but that seems to be resolved now.

I would like to thank all those farriers who voted for me, and for stuarts supporting and encouraging words, however we were both concerned that between us we amounted 260 votes and estimate that fewer than 500 farriers voted.

Congratulations peter you and i have been elected to represent our trade, we both have a duty to our electorate to voice its opinion and inform it of any outcomes in council. My first duty is to those who elected me they are the people who put trust and faith in both of us regardless of whether we sign a scrap of paper. You should also know that we are not on council yet as although we are elected to council we still have to be accepted by the present council.

SORRY THIS IS ALL BUT I WILL BE BACK,

PNB
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Postby PNB » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:42 am

Alex,

Thanks, I hope we can stand back to back and kick ass. I am a bit perplexed about the registration act being brought under the control of the New Veterinary Surgeons Act. The comment by the BEVA president [ Dec, Horse and Hound ], concerns us all, it appears a deal may have already been done, but by whom it is not clear. The relevance of the formation of FTA may I feel play a role.

UKHSU will be debating this quite soon, at its next meeting, when the construction of a related paper will be discussed. Would you consider coming and observing the discussion, you are welcome to attend as my GUEST.

I wish everyone a happy and prosperous new year.

PNB.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:58 am

Alex,

500 farriers voting, I will be interested to read the full strength when FRC announce at the 1st March AGM.

I feel 500 is quite a good number, if correct it may well demonstrate an uplift on previous numbers!! It will definitely demonstrate whether our efforts have stimulated interest in FRC!!

The FRC AGM March 1st, is an open to the public meeting, I hope you will support UKHSU's efforts to allow it to be open to all to review it in its entirety.

I strongly support the idea / suggestion that FRC closed sessions are done away with to assist transparency of proceedings. Further more would feel disposed to leaving the meeting, being YOUR elected member of the craft should craft members be excluded from any part of the meeting, if they wish their fellow craft members on FRC to take such action!!

PNB.

awc
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Postby awc » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:31 pm

pete

I have spoken to stuart and we believe that there was a 100% increase in votes but i still wish there had been more as you know we need the ears and voice of all our fellow craftsmen if we are to make progress.

Thank you for the invitation, stuart had allready invited me and i hope to attend as i am putting together several meetings with other farriers in several areas.

Over the festive season i have made good use of my time phoning farriers all over the country to get more of them interested in what is going on and how it effects them, the results vary but they amount to one thing we are not happy[ not the royal we ].

I can see no reason why there would be a need for a closed session of council, and even if there was our electorate have every right to demand to know what is going on. We were both elected onto the council something we can be proud of unlike the other members who just arrived on a whim.

Vets today are fast becoming the equivelent of GPs with the advent of more specialised and better trained equestrian professions. they are scared of us because we are evolving and becoming more knowledgable and slowly reducing the amount of lameness that would normally bring them much needed revenue.

We are a threat to there profesion because we have learnt to care about our craft and how we go about our work.

Must go now, as my daughter is hovering and sighing over my shoulder eager to get on the computer will add more tomorrow.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 pm

Alex,

I have signed the agreement agreeing to abide by the rules and procedures of FRC.

I have however noticed there are ambiguities between the rules, procedures and the NOLAN recommendation.

I have therefore stated I will abide by the rules only in so much as they do not clash with NOLAN and to this event I will respect the direction of NOLAN in preference to the rules and procedures.

This of course includes the NOLAN guidance regarding openness and public interest specifically towards those that appointed / elected me to represent them.

PNB.

awc
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Postby awc » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:07 pm

pete

i have noticed the same thing and have been ploughing through it all night. will sign mine when i go upto sefton house in feb.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:09 am

Alex,

Be careful I think the induction day is 26th January 06, see you there. We need to talk first. I will phone in a couple of days.

PNB.

PNB
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Confidentiality

Postby PNB » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:14 pm

Alex - All registered Farriers,

I intend very shortly to raise this matter with the registrar FRC.

Please add your comments for my guidance, ASAP please and prior to my submission of this item.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is an abstract from the rules and procedures of council,

"CONFIDENTIALITY

135. The business of the Council shall be open to the public unless the Council specifically directs otherwise on the grounds that disclosure would be contrary to the commercial or other interests of the Council or of any person (whether individual or corporate) likely to be identified in the proposed course of Council business.

136. The papers of meetings of the Council and its Committees and details of Council or Committee discussions not open to the public shall remain confidential to Members of the Council and Council's staff. The minutes of Council, once approved by Council, shall be non-confidential unless specifically designated as confidential. The respective minutes of Council's Committees and the JFTC shall remain confidential to members of those Committees as well as to Council and to Council staff."

The document I was required to sign states:-

b, " I have read and accept the main principles established by the NOLAN committee on the conduct of Public Business".

The abstract of NOLAN presented with the bundle by FRC states:-

" Holders of public office should be as open as possible about all the decisions and actions that they take. They should give reasons for their decisions and restrict information only [ONLY] when the wider public interest clearly [CLEARLY] demands [ DEMANDS].

Nolan is clearly and irrefutably in dispute with FRC rules 135 and 136.

I ask can the rules and procedures of FRC overrule the general rule of law laid out under Nolan??

PNB.

john ford
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Postby john ford » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:21 pm

I am very pleased to see that you two gentlemen have had the forethought to reverse your decision not to sign the confidential agreement from FRC. I am also delighted to see that now you have been elected as farrier representatives your tone on these boards has changed to a more acceptable level. I wish you both the best of luck when you take your seat for the first time in March. By changing your minds so soon about an issue you were so adamant against signing before you have even attended the first meeting of the FRC, I hope this doesn’t mean that once again the FRC has won the battle in turning two representatives on council into Nodding Donkeys?

PNB
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Postby PNB » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:35 pm

John,

The document is in-oppressive, when taken in conjunction with the rule of law designate by Nolan.

Abstracts of documents presented are unworkable and ambiguous as demonstrated above, I have only signed the FRC document on the understanding NOLAN RULES!! OK.

PNB.

john ford
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Postby john ford » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:37 pm

Peter, Noland is different to the rules of council. You said you have signed your agreement, so why now are you backtracking? Remember when you vote on major issues at council meetings on behalf of us all, they don’t give you a second chance a day latter to change your mind

PNB
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Postby PNB » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:06 pm

John,

You are being silly again, review what I actually wrote at 6.38 pm yesterday, or are you simply looking for another kick up the eighties.

John, you must be the most frustrating person I have ever been unfortunate to meet, the moment I feel we are getting an accord and I think I can see the arguments you wish me to support, you make a bloody stupid point, which totally derides the feelings of the other members of our craft. I feel you should grow up or lay off whatever you are taking!!

PNB.

csc
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csc

Postby csc » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:12 am

i think john is saying two things here, firstly you have bigger things to consider now elected, and not to get wound up and side tracked by trivial things, the second is now that you have signed ,it is hoped that we will be fully informed not only on policy but upon the working of system this we wait in anticipation

Giles
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Contact:

Postby Giles » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:37 pm

Jenny,
Very enthusiastic and encouraging !!!

Giles
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Postby Giles » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:40 pm

jenny,
I didnt know you were a Farrier, if you are not then you dint vote, and he does not represent you, or me come to that.

awc
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Postby awc » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:19 pm

i did know it was this month pete. from what ive read so far i would say that certain people who feel that the contents of the folder does not aply to them. sighning the declaration does not in any way restrict me from representing farriers.

csc
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csc

Postby csc » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:36 am

alex it might not stop you representing farriers ,but does it stop you informing farriers if that were the case then how will it be debated,

awc
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Postby awc » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:58 pm

there is no way it can stop me from keeping you informed as it is my duty to represent you that is just what i intend to do.

PNB
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Nolan, an olive branch for the craft.

Postby PNB » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:18 am

Alex, John, Stuart,

Good points!!

The silent members of the craft serving on council do not respect their obligations under NOLAN, no doubt about that. I would even go as far as to suggest it is an obligation placed upon the body corporate FRC to give the craft details of proposals and decisions that are being processed, and that the detail should be made available by response and be as in depth as the craft requests!!.

You and I have a right to know. Under Nolan it appears there is an obligation to interact with the craft regarding the direction the craft is being taken. This is well and clearly stated within Nolan and acknowledged by the membership of FRC under a signed declaration.

Nolan obliges us to inform what is currently happening and interact with our public regarding what decisions have been made and why these decisions have been made by them, specifically!!

Examples of failure to accord with Nolan;

Details have been requested enough times regarding meeting agenda's and other debating items on our behalf by UKHSU alone.

Recently frequent requests being made on these pages direct to our representatives on FRC.

Both of which would have been one way to have the rank and file craft involved in its own future. The mechanism is now in place, but is resisted I refer to the use of the internet medium.

Further more it is suggested that a fuller use should be made by FRC of the four month ratification process to instruct the craft and allow the craft to respond. There can be no argument that the time scale to inform the craft of post meeting non ratified council outcomes is time prohibited.

Alex / Stuart, I actually now welcome the said FRC document, members signing up to Nolan will actually / should encourage / oblige a more open accountable administration, and not act as a gagging contract as was feared, in any way. All it needs is a little shove!!

PNB.
Last edited by PNB on Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PNB
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Postby PNB » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:23 am

Alex,

I hope you will support the below debate at council.

A member of council informed me that, "THEY [whoever] had been given express instruction not to speak to you". [ Assumed to be either me personally but most probably UKHSU].

I feel this flies directly in the face of NOLAN, and as such requires further investigation and remedy.

PNB.

Italian stallion
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Postby Italian stallion » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:44 pm

PNB
I don't see why you need quote nolan when the FRC have a(transparent communications policy) it heads there bulletins page maybe they should explain how that works first before asking anyone to sign declarations.

EW Dwcf


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