Mature Apprentice Training Matters.

For farriers to raise concerns with elected Farriers Registration Council representative Peter Baker. Anonymous postings will be deleted.
PNB
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:59 am
Location: Wilts, Berks, Ox, Hants, Avon.

Mature Apprentice Training Matters.

Postby PNB » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:05 am

All,

This thread I have lifted from another section.

PNB.

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Guest

Thanks John that has made it a whole lot clearer and I can now fully understand your greivances on this.
I would assume that the effects of 'wages for apprentices' is why registered farriers make the decision to become an ATF or not in the first place.
If they have the financial ability to support an apprentice as well as being able to offer the best training and it is what they want to do, then great.
This may be why there are so few ATFs. Finding an extra 100£ a week is not an easy task for any sole trader trying to support himself and his family.
I suggested that it is somewhat to do with how good their apprentice is or how good a client base or position they are in to take on more work to finance the apprentice.
It is a hard call though and something that should definatley be taken up with the FRC. Good luck.
regards
Dawn

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Guest


Dawn, bless you, i would like to point out that all that seems well isn't.
apprentice farriery students are overloaded with NVQ paper work that ties there time up along with the college tutors so less time is spent teaching at the anvil.
apprentices are very cheap labour that never get payed correctly for the time worked.
They usually have the least amount of training the ATFs can getaway with the fact that only 2% of farriers make shoes out of 2500 farriers might explain why the colleges have sent student back home to there ATFs.
The days are gone where a little help was at hand, red tape has seen to that and endless paper work tieing up the best tutors making sure all looks well before the next IV visit.
It's now a standing joke with farrier students as they call themselves secretary. We used to produce good box standard farriers, now we can't say that because this NVQ system still has to many failings that have and never will get addressed untill the training of apprentices is run solely by
farriers, then we might tidy some of this NVQ up and get back to training
some of the best farriers once more.

(HONS)

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Guest

Bless you too, HONs

Theory is part of parcel when learning any trade, whether through and NVQ or not, surely. Even though, in the ideal situation, the farrier trainee should spend more time in the field with a professional, theory and research paper work is still an essential part of the training.

I agree farriers ect should solely run training, but this still does not help those who cannot afford to pay a decent wage to a trainee. which is why I said, (in the ideal world) some of the money given to run NVQs to colleges and fees of around £6000 the apprentices have to pay, (not sure exactly who gets a fair share of that, certainly not the farriers who are asked/expected to train them) should really be going to the farriers who are training them.
Now that the NVQs are up and running (and probably not going to change) all the farriers and ATFs can do is try and change the protocal within this so that they are not financially worse off. How they will do that is another dilemma. (Hypothetically, Maybe they should refuse to take them on due to financial losses. Then what would the NVQ system do for training in the field? Any thoughts anyone?)

I only think it is cheap labour if the apprentice feels he/she is not getting the full tuition that they should be, likewise some ATFs would not like to pay a full wage to a trainee who is lazy or not applying himself. swings and roundabouts really.

regards
Dawn

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Giles,

Dawn,

before NVQ’s apprentices did nearly the same amount of theory as now, in fact I seem to remember it was a week longer. So NVQ’s have not brought any thing more to Farrier Training, in fact with the extra paper work, less. The quality of training was better before as well, because ATF’s could spend more time one to one with the trainee. So Farriers were right in voting for no NVQ’s and the experts who implemented them were wrong. That shows you the standard of the people in charge.. The fact that you have got your NVQ does not mean that you can go off and shoe on your own, you still have to do another year, and get you r Dip.WCF. so in fact they are a waste of time and energy that could be spent improving standards. As far as I can see, if you train in the EU for a couple of years, you can come to the UK and you may be required to take the Dip.WCF exam, BUT you wont have to take the NVQ, you wont have to go to college, and you save 2 years as far as I can see. How does that strike you baby!!!!!

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john ford

Unless one understands WHY something is wrong you will never be able to fix it. The WHY issue on this subject are government grants. Get rid of accepting government grants within farriery, and then the trade can get back control of the industry which they know more about than those in charge at present.

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Guest

being a mature apprentice and paying for my apprenticeship i fully appreciate the dedication and hard work required to achieve the end goal. so mabe if apprenticeship grants were less readily available to the under 25's then mabe the whole practice would be appreciated more, especially if it run like the student grant's to be paid back when earning a good wage, it's not like the earning potential is low.i work hard for my wage's but expect to , in reality i can't actually see what i'm getting for my money from the system it's paid into,mabe if i was to pay it direct to my atf or the college i would get more for it. everybody can bitch about it but i don't see it changing in my time or even the next 10yrs, its not going to deter me from doing what i've chosen and that's the difference between a mature apprentice and one who financially gets it handed to them on a plate!!!

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PNB

Rw, & Mature Apprentice,

A quote from from the new head of FTA, I don't really know the full implications yet!!, " It may be necessary for Council to revisit the whole matter of mature apprentice training".

If and when this happens, be assured, I will be making every effort to expedite the " matter", mature apprentices will have an input path to at least the craft's current membership serving on council.

Please keep us up to date with anything you wish to share.

PNB.

PS, I have recently been told my posting are to long winded by some one I respect, something which I have taken on board!!

Email, pnbaker@tiscali.co.uk if you wish to expand your thoughts, I will even come to meet you and take a written deposition as you want.

If the demand is there and now armed with "Nolan" it may be as well to speak to the Field Workers at the same time.

PNB
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:59 am
Location: Wilts, Berks, Ox, Hants, Avon.

Worshipfull Company Farriers, RCVS request input from craft.

Postby PNB » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:10 pm

All,

This is a first from my view point.

At yesterdays meeting 31/01/06.

It was explained that no decisions could be made by this working group. There was a very strong objection to a concept of a referendum prior to the decision being made to impliment, however how implimentation was to happen was not clear.

The referendum question was not resolved, it was suggested that all interested parties should make representations to Brig. Paul Jepson WCF, as to the benefits or otherwise of not holding a referendum.
The ball is in your court.

DO YOU WANT TO BE CONSULTED AND HAVE A VOTE ON THE PRINCIPLE OF SHOULD THE FARRIERS REGISTRATION ACT BE WITHDRAWN AND FARRIERY PLACED UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF THE ROYAL COLLEGE OF VETERINARY SURGEONS?? I MOST CERTAINLY DO!!!

I UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION IS THE CRAFT WILL BE CONSULTED, BUT WILL HAVE NO INPUT BY WAY OF A DEMOCRATIC VOTE.

PNB.


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