Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

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Italian stallion
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:04 pm

Ive been well and truly put in my place today by a young lady barefoot trimmer, she tells me that a barefoot trimmer only trims feet and will not apply anything to the feet this includes boots raps glues or screws, they will refer a horse back to a farrier if it's not happy barefoot after twelve months.

She wants to distance herself from equine podiatrists as they think they no more than the average trimmer,farrier,vet and pedal all sorts to customers, and she points out a true barefoot horse is one that moves without anything on his feet.
Boots, raps, adhesives , are a No No and want the public to know that an equine podaitrist was in court Not A Natural Barefoot Trimmer.

Big Iron
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Big Iron » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:22 pm

If any owners are concerned about the facts of barefoot and /or equine podiatry practitioners and their relationship to the poly flex wraps;

pure information can be resourced at http://fightingforthebarefoothorse.com/

Sincerely,

Big Iron

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:36 pm

HORSEOWNERS BEWARE AN EQUINE PODAITRIST HAS BEEN TO COURT AND CONVICTED FOR THE USE OF POLY FLEX RAPS AS THEY SHOULD ONLY BE APPLIED BY REGISTERD FARRIERS .

PLEASE PHONE YOUR VET IM SURE ALL WILL BE MADE VERY CLEAR.

Big Iron
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Big Iron » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:49 pm

Dear Horse owners,

A web site for horse owners by horse owners provides pure information on the aforemaentioned court proceedings.

If you care to seek out and research your options for hoof care then www.fightingforthebarefoothorse.com can provide you with un-biased info on court proceedings and some barefoot case studies and options.

Sincerely,
Big Iron.

Big Iron
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Big Iron » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:49 pm

Dear Italian,

If the young lady has the opinion you mention about foot wraps it is truly her right to have it, however. Any barefoot practitioner has a duty of care towards the hoof and the horse, and any professional barefooter / or equine podiatrist will use whatever tool is required to bring the horse to well being. A poly flex wrap is one of those such tools, as well as hoof boots for example. Polyflex wraps are simply a protective flexible sock and can and will be duly applied to a hoof by most barefoot trimmers/equine podiatrists if the case may need.

However in the uk, the legal position is farriers will apply metal shoes and if a shoe is required the barefooter will ring their local farrier if they think a shoe is required.

Sales in poly flex wraps are booming world wide actually, my research shows. Purchased by vets, owners, and barefoot professionals. Farriers are very slowly catching on, but seem to have a lump of iron stopping them from seeing the pure benefits of a wrap or a cast.

Sincerely,

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:59 pm

HORSEOWNERS BEWARE AN EQUINE PODAITRIST BY THE NAME OF TOM BOWYER WAS CONVICTED FOR THE ACT OF FARRIERY.

PLEASE CONSULT WITH YOUR VET FOR ANY FOOT CARE FOR YOUR HORSE .THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL UNBAISED AND GOOD ADVISE BECOUSE IS THERE ANY BETTER THAN YOUR VET.

jaimep
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:20 pm
Location: 50 miles of Chesterfield, mid Wales, Cornwall, jaimeexup@hotmail.com

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:49 pm

Interesting thread Italian, thank you.

Who is your young lady trimmer? Where did she train? with whom is she qualified?

It brings up some misinformation. Not necessarily your fault, you (or she) would not necessarily know .

Some facts:-

Anyone can call themselves a barefoot trimmer and practice as one.

The term 'Equine Podiatrist' is protected (at least in America where it originated).

There are 14 Equine Podiatrists (EPs) in the uk, we are all full members of the Equine Podiatry Association UK. Tom is not one.

People trained by KC La Pierre (or his 'International Institute of Applied Equine Podiatry') are 'Applied Equine Podiatrists' (a slightly odd name IMO but it gets around the protection issue). Tom is an AEP.

N.B. I'm not necessarily implying anything negative about KC, Tom, AEPs, barefoot trimmers or indeed anyone. Just stating facts.

And I'm not attacking you. So don't feel you have to 'strike' back.

Big Iron:- Someone (John Ford I think) on another thread, asked you who you were. I'd like to know too.

If you look back over some of the threads on this site you will see that we don't all, always, see eye to eye all of the time :roll: but despite the occasional 'nom de plum' we all pretty much know who we all are and consequently from which perspective we see things. Hell, some of us have even met, face to face, in the real world.

Now you have only recently (in the wake of the Tom Bowyer case it seems) come on to this site and have made some pretty incisive comments which I suspect have upset a few (not me, yet).

I agree with John Ford (I'll stand you a stiff drink to recover from that comment John!) in that if you are going to continue in your challenging style (which I enjoy btw) you should let us know who you are or at least from where you come from..

You have I think suggested you are a farrier if so UK? US? EU? (we all know the significant differences) but like many farriers you seem very pro barefooter... maybe you are a 'hoofer' yourself? maybe an AEP? Maybe Tom himself? Please let us know, it is only decent. Apart from anything else it would give you more creditability.

jaimep
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:20 pm
Location: 50 miles of Chesterfield, mid Wales, Cornwall, jaimeexup@hotmail.com

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:58 pm

Last para should say "unlike many farriers"...

btw admin/mods. Is there a reason I do not have an 'edit' function for my posts? If not could I have one please I note others can edit their comments.

Or have I missed it?...

:drinking:

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:23 pm

It would be wrong to give the lady's name , other than she comes from Cheshire.

I think you need to know that I'm barefoot friendly, I can hear you go ha ha ha but people like Steve wagg whose wife's horse was shod by me as he was very foot sore "referd by his vet".


Steve arrived at my forge with his wife christine for the first time, I'm sure he did not have a clue what to expect.
We went through why he a problem, seated out some shoes fitted nailed and Finnish, then the horse walk out of my forge
Sound steve was a gent and we booth learnt something.

Then we have Richard vialls who had a mule in his care who was constantly lame, the owner a consultant in A&E was not a happy lady, she asked me for for some help.
The mule had been trimmed by Richard many many times with no result, I applied a ESCFT to this mule taking in his conformation this was Richard first big mistake which he manage to repeat every time he trimmed the mule.

One trim by me and sound, the hand of god you might say.

ps, Richard wasn't happy with the the email from the consultant, he quickly email back a very lengthy one at that, he was pissed to say the least when he realised I've had the sack, I could post the emails on this thread if you so wish.

unlike Steve he should have asked me for help I'm only a phone call away, I'm always on the phone to a fwcf as we farriers go to the top and get free advise.

The sooner you are regulated by an external body and are answerable for you actions the better.
It's the only way forward at least then we farriers would recognise you guys as professionals so you can have legal insurance,
Until then keep trying.

Regards,

E.w.

jaimep
Posts: 121
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Location: 50 miles of Chesterfield, mid Wales, Cornwall, jaimeexup@hotmail.com

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:44 pm

?

I'm sorry EW, you've totally lost me... Your point is?...

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:29 am

Some people ask for help like Steve, because they wish there horse not to suffer.
He also learnt how to trim his wife horse for the conditions it was ridden.

Richard choose not to seek help and kept his mule lame for a long period, if regulation was in place I would have reported him, but as you no the public have no where to turn as you are not regulated or have any insurance.
You wish to be seen as professionals,a joke and you will find it will be a very long time coming.

Ps , I wish you would explain to jo public that you are a member of a splitter groupe ot the IAEP that Richard trained with,
But felt you new more than KC the man with false docs and presto we have a new barefoot gang, how many are there now the public has lost count.

Big Iron
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Big Iron » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:32 am

Dear Jamiep,


Hi Thanks for your comment, I keep my identity un-revealed for a few reasons. I'll try to explain.

But firstly, it has nothing to do with my credentials as you refer to, and my credibility is not affected if I reveal my identity or not. My credibility is simply my credibility.

You say I lean towards barefooter / hoofing, and inquire as to my background and training and my standing. I'm a farrier, but am very barefoot friendly. I have learnt both ways. I know the benefit of a metal shoe; I also know a metal shoe on place for more than two 6-week cycles begins to do severe damage to a horse’s foot. I'm aware of kc's work, but do not align to his type, I can’t find his scruples. Ramey is the (public) leader in the barefoot world by 100 lengths. He sets the standard for any barefooter to follow. KC, although he can fix a damaged horse is a long way behind with plenty of contenders in front of him. And there are plenty of hoofers doing great work in a silent way that we don't get to hear about.

Farriery is a wonderful craft, and it will always be around. When you look to history you will find that most agricultural horses were shod for planting/harvest time and that's it. They had 10 months out of shoes ( and usually no foot problems). However the craft has changed to a sport horse world, and the craft has catered to that market. It has put shoes on horses 12 months a year and as such we see the damaged atrophy conditions that shoes cause. It aint normal. It aint good for the horse. In fact it is very cruel. I learnt farriery originally from a guy who said leave the sole alone, bring back the toe, and give the horse a break sometimes,,, he also said if your putting on those fancy heartbar or wedge type things , your doing something wrong, it aint the horse. This is the old wisdom that is lost from modern farriery (particularly English farriery). Instead now, we have freaks in forges making orthopedic type shoes, when really the horse needs a paddock spell. Their basic horsemanship is poor if they can’t see that, and they should be telling the customer if they insist on shoeing to rack off and not be so daft. It’s about the horse, not the next blue ribbon. If farriers want to pursue this psychosis then good luck to them, I won’t.

I do 9 barefoot customers to 1 shoeing customer. Recently I have gone back into the forge for a bit of fun with a mate to keep my hand in, and to keep strong a bit.

You mention I have made some incisive comments and come on the forum since the Tom case. Yes I have come on since the Tom case, but have not made incisive comments , but have spoken some truths these metal headed freaks probably need to hear. They go on with such crap, they murder the truth and promote the lie, just to make a barefooter look bad. Its sociopathic and psychotic hubris these twits write. For example, the FRC were lying on their press releases about Tom, and the simpleton imbeciles on the forum were sinking the boot in too. So I came on to spread a bit of truth. If these imbeciles get their ego flustered it aint an incisive comment by me,,,it’s their ego's illusion being popped like a balloon.

Then there was Ms Lindsay’s position, and these cowards were sinking the boot into her, and it was bullshit they were writing. It was pure bullshit from these cowards. So do you really think I was writing incisive comments, or was I popping a few egos? You choose.


I'd like to mention I'm not talking about all farriers of course, some of them are cool and level headed,,, but some of the freaks on here can do with a some ego popping.


One of the reasons I keep my identity private is these metal heads can be dangerous, some of them are violent and protective of the frc and their club. Whilst I can handle the drive by file throwings in the window, it upsets the Mrs. They will become more dangerous as more and more owners go towards the hoofers. This frc club for farriers is operated on a founding lie. (Horse welfare) Lies wobble when put to the test. Their lie is wobbling a lot right now. More and more customers are moving away from farriers. As soon as an owner gets it, they never go back. As soon as an owner has been lied to by the farrier enough they never go back (you know-that horse needs a wedged onion bar shoe otherwise its lame !!! ) And the classic ( that hose is lame without a shoe) ,,, its bullshit. This is where the campaign at http://fightingforthebarefoothorse.com/ is gaining momentum all the time. The bullshitting monopoly of the frc is being exposed bit by bit. The frc and the worshitful company have no almighty right or entitlement to hoof care.

Here is a classic example of this boys club from one of their ancient cousins- the worshipful company of boatmen , oarsman, and lighterman or some crap like that. The boat trade was going along nicely for a long time,,,then when the London bridges were being built, say early 1800’s these geezas protested to the heavens to prevent the bridges going ahead, it damaged their income,,,, worse if you were rich enough to have a boat and didn’t use their services you’d probably have your boat burnt to the waterline. So they are thugs, a mafia like union organization that goes a long way back into the dark days of the city of London 1300’s . The world is sick of thugs and tyrants like this, we aint going to take their crap anymore. I see the barefoot industry and the campaign at http://fightingforthebarefoothorse.com/ to be much like building a bridge over the River Thames. We aint interested in being controlled by a boys club of thugs. So again is that an incisive comment, or are these little bullshitting darlings having their ego’s bruised. You choose. I don’t really care if their egos take a thumping.

You have to trust people, I do. I trust the thieves to steal, the liars to bullshit and the tyrants to control. And here on this forum we are seeing the lot. I give 2 examples:-

1. Look above to Italian stallions post about a lady trimmer who wanted to talk to the world about barefoot stuff, then I replied and put a stick in his spokes because I felt he was lying, he replied with anger and put his opinion in about see a vet. Then I stayed calm and put another stick in his spokes, he got even angrier and more un-settled with his replies. He had to have the one up man ship on me, and I let him,,, so I now know his initial posting was a big fat red herring of bullshit. A red herring to try and sway owners away from equine podiatrists. Without doubt, and its all sitting there for any horse owner to see just how full of shit these guys are sometimes. Now back to trusting folk, if Italian stallion is going to lie about farriery and barefoot practices here on this forum, I trust him to go out there and lie about it too. Next example.

2. “Cedric Ford”. This guy is dangerous-a sociopathic nut. He actively tries to twist the truth and when he replies to my posts he attempts to twist it all, distort what I’ve said, puts out there topics I have not even mentioned in order to confuse, and he’s what they call in the negotiation business “a shill” He thinks people don’t notice, some do some don’t. His downfall is that his hubris style turns people off, eventually his foundation of bullshit starts to wobble. Look at how he back peddled on the sole corium thing, and put up some bullshit post about an up coming AWCF exam to try and claw back a bit of credibility on his anatomy knowledge. And he tried to back-peddle saying he meant something else.- utter bullshit. The English words from him -grow a sole from a horse’s corium.!!! Absolute balderdash! Actually mean he does not agree. His self appointed superiority over how he thinks others think is his downfall. He is using bullshit to try and put a stick in my spokes, but bullshit can’t hurt the truth. Can It.? You know, protesting the building of a London bridge and all that!!!!!! This guy and his mates try to discredit, try to de-face, kill the truth and promote the lie. These guys are psychotic thugs, insolent little brats and cowards. This geezer has no problem slandering a barefoot trimmer who has successfully healed a horse from his style, but gets offended when you use the word worshit. So, back to trusting people, if he’s like this here on the forum, he’s like this out there with customers. So am I using incisive comments or putting a few cold hearted and mean spirited cowards straight? You choose.

Whilst I have your attention Jaimep, if your organization tries to set a necessary qualification for trimmers, your just being like them. Set a standard, not a nazi regime. In fact you’ll find in history that the livery companies set standards, its just the farriers livery company got too big for their boots. And what’s with that pompous geeza from the worshitful company that wears the long coat around?

There is something very wrong with the way they will kill the truth and promote the lie
There is something very wrong with their attacking and slandering style of the equine barefoot movement. It’s a tribal thuggery, much like soccer hooliganism. Owners are looking toward a new dignity in hoof care; they don’t want these thugs in their stables. They don’t want bombastic hoof care from red-necked imbeciles swinging wedged onion-bar shoes around their erections---- they cant sustain it!
The campaign continues, it grows horse owner by horse owner until a new bridge is built.
The farrier boys jump on board or they loose the lot, simple.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

Ps, I’m not Tom as you alluded to, but he has come out now and commented, of particular note is his reference to the lying and defamation by the FRC. They aint a nice bunch, tyrants actually. Tom sets it all straight in his notes at the campaign.

Cedric
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Location: Lancashire.

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Cedric » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:34 am

I find it most disturbing that the above rant has been posted on the "Horseowners" forum. I trust the majority of sensible horse owners (whether subscribing to the ' barefoot' system or not ) will take it with a pinch of salt.

Apart from spurious personal attacks on individuals it contains so many inaccuracies and downright untruths that I shall not even attempt to refute them individually, however , there are two I must comment upon. - no, there are three !!!

1/ Do horseowners really believe that FARRIERS DRIVE PAST EACH OTHERS HOUSES AND THROW RASPS THROUGH THE WINDOWS !!

2/ Historically agricultural horses were only shod two months out of the year ?? I think not. And what about all the other tradesmens horses, doctors, milkmen etc. ?

3/ I also know a metal shoe on place for more than two 6-week cycles begins to do severe damage to a horse’s foot. It has put shoes on horses 12 months a year and as such we see the damaged atrophy conditions that shoes cause. It aint normal. It aint good for the horse. In fact it is very cruel.

The later comment really does deserve the classification of 'balderdash' !

The entire post seems to be a propaganda exercise in favour of 'barefoot trimmers' liberally interspersed with paranoid ramblings,

I have nothing against the barefoot system, some horses will go well without shoes. I deciding whether to try 'barefoot' or not I believe horseowners would be wise to take impartial advice and not rely on a person who makes 90% of his living from 'barefoot' .

PS. Just to demonstrate ther level of Big Iron's knowledge, I started a thread on the Farriers forum about Milestone examinations, totally unrelated to the 'barefoot' issue. He seems to think it is an AWCF examination (a higher qualification), when in fact, it is an apprentice exam. To state that it is only to divert attention from his is trully paraniod.

Big Iron
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:48 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Big Iron » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:42 pm

Dear "Cedric Ford"


In your reply you come with the 3 comments you most want to make,

What surprises me most, and should really be in your top 3 is you have no position on:-

1) the slander and defamation towards Tom B by the FRC in their press releases. You have no position on an organization administering an act of parliament that has slandered an innocent man, one of your collegues in the hoof care world;

2) the slander and defamation that UK farriers thrust on to the barefooters on these pages, you'd rather it go on would you?

Instead you would rather comment on the milkmans horse or make a judgement on my skills because I barefoot more horse than I shoe. So you are a sociopathic nut. You have no care, no feeling, no heart to see the injustice done towards an innocent man by a pack of tyrants. You really are a sociopathic nut.

This letter was to Jaimep , not you , you freak. Its none of your business, and it was put up on the owners page so they could see what a bunch of cruel thugs some of you are. Now its here, in front of the owners who read here. Plain as day.

Sincerely,
Big Iron

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:53 pm

This is why I give the public good UNBAISED advise speak to your vet as far as hoof care goes, because reading the above post you need ask yourselfs would you want a rambling nut like this on your own yard, THINK ON.

jaimep
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:20 pm
Location: 50 miles of Chesterfield, mid Wales, Cornwall, jaimeexup@hotmail.com

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:30 am

Jeez... Italian... talk about tangential thought processes, are you on drugs? Please don't forget we are on the horse owners section, that means the public, your clients, are reading this.

You say it would be wrong to name people on here and then instantly go and name three!? To what end?

You say you are barefoot friendly but almost your every comment seems to be anti-barefoot almost to the point of irrationality.

Whenever I attempt to discuss anything with you sensibly you become abusive and nonsensical (see previous threads dear readers). You come across as very angry, threatened, insecure, vindictive and scheming and I see no mileage for anyone in prompting any of that, so please, forgive me if I again revert to ignoring you.

And your lie!!! For the record:-
I am regulated, answerable and insured, and have been eminently and demonstrably professional for something approaching 30 years! I assure you I have no need to be recognised by 'you farriers' (although I often am)and whilst I certainly have nothing against you, I respectfully do not want to be one (PNB please note). Oh, and I too occasionally ask and take advice from a FWCF or two of my acquaintance, when it is appropriate and within their sphere of expertise.

Big Iron:-

That narrows it down a bit... : )

You seem to have taken my use of the word 'incisive' as a slur. I would have taken it as a compliment. Intent is important and often it is not what comes to us that defines us but the way we receive it.

On first sight I was a little concerned about the length of your post..and determined not to read it.

On reading it I have to say that I feel there is probably much truth in it.

Incidentally I know one of the very last London Lightermen. He was a coward and a bully who used to beat his wife and kids up...

And my, my,... dear readers, we do seem to have some ego's on this forum don't we? I'm probably out of my depth :wink:

Good luck with the campaign... I think...maybe, taking everything into account but please don't post a link up to that website again, we've all seen it, it's already getting old.

I reserve comment on the whole débâcle... except to say that I personally have never yet had to resort to using a wrap and I can't offhand think of any other EP (see above) that has either...

My point about credibility (did I say creditability before? I must have been tired and it seems I'm not allowed an edit function as others are, I can only wonder why) is that I, and others, would have more respect for you if you stepped up and stood behind your words as others on here do.

Anyways...I myself really don't have time for all this sport so I'm going to bow out of this one now, particularly as it seems to be rambling way off thread and pointless.

Be nice to each other and don't embarrass yourselves!

Toodles!

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:19 am

Run rabbit run, don't bother to answer how you lot came about, and any questions about KC docs, Richard your little mate that got banned of a BHS yard for what he did to the mule, but any other trimmer was welcome, funny don't you think.

Anyway JAMIE HICK it been interesting, have a nice Xmas and hope to here from you soon.

Best regards,

E.W. :x :roll:

jaimep
Posts: 121
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Location: 50 miles of Chesterfield, mid Wales, Cornwall, jaimeexup@hotmail.com

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:20 pm

lol I'm not running, your complete jerk! There is nothing to run from! You and your invidious comments are simply irrellevant, infantile and pointless.

You started this thread, what is it about? Apart from you pursuing your vendetta? Keep going bro because you and your like will be loosing clients every word you write!

I don't need to explain anything as anyone with half a brain and Google (which I see you have finally discovered) can find all the facts and there are no secrets.

And I'm certainly not hiding so please at least get it right, it is 'Jaime Hickman'. And you'll easily find my phone and email too! (I'm also available for talks and conferences folks!) So what? We all know your English is astonishingly poor but I would have thought even you would be able to copy something correctly, perhaps you need someone to explain how 'cut and paste' works for your next revelation?

I have to admit that I do find you irresistible though... but really this time... enough already!

be happy and stay safe under them horses bro.

:fadein:

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:41 pm

And to that very point J.h,

Do you remember ROCKYMOUNTAINUK Cornwall Falmouth, Pedal bone rotation.

Quote, I had JAMIE HICKMAN EP, BUT WAS NOT HAPPY WITH HIM, HE KEPT TAKING DOWN HER HEELs, AND SHE WAS GETTING SORER AND SORER AND DID NOT MENTION BOOTS OR ANYTHING ABOUT PEDAL BONE ROTATION.

Well Jamie same old problem as your mate Richard, you just don't have a clue do you, she ended up with a good vet and farrier thanks to your skill, but you have stile take the customers money and run rabbit run.

Ps, I don't have time now to tell you the story of Richard and the Shetland pony and the bag of white powder that's for another day.

AND YOU THINK YOU ARE CAPEABLE OF TEACHING, ONE BIG JOKE,You and Richard are part of the 91% that lantra pointed out that need training .

Sleep tight. :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:29 pm

Yet the same has recommended me on more than one occasion on the forum she frequents?

What you say is untrue EW but I will not discuss the details of any particular case on a public forum or indeed in private without the prior agreement/involvement of the parties involved.

As I say irresistible... so I will not return.

Italian stallion
Posts: 378
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:45 pm

Jamie,

it's in black and white and true, however it's time for both of us to put our dualing pistols away for now, and will maintain that all horse owners should consult with there vet on all hoof care.

Ps I mean you no harm Jamie, and if you knew me you would find I'm the first to help and that includes you. I only wish to keep the horse safe, can that be such a bad thing.

Regards,

E.w.

admin
Site Admin
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editing posts

Postby admin » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:42 pm

Sorry for late reply, but as far as I am aware no one can edit their posts except for admin which is me. Sometimes I delete duplicate postings or correct spelling mistakes but that is all. If someone asks me to remove something that they themselves have posted for an important legal or personal reason I will try and oblige. But if editing posts is allowed that can make subsequent posting look ridiculous. It is not allowed. For anyone. Regards. Admin. :agrue:

jaimep
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Location: 50 miles of Chesterfield, mid Wales, Cornwall, jaimeexup@hotmail.com

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:33 pm

Admin:- Thanks. Makes sense to me.

Stallion:- Checked your 'facts' eh? Run rabbit run... :lol:

And please, don't even try to patronise me.

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:51 pm

Well well, :roll:

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:14 pm

[quoteBlack and white and true?][/quote]

What she actually says is
I have use Jaimie Hickman and he is really very very good. I am in Cornwall and used him on my gated horse and my daughters Cob.

He is extremley helpful and knows the business, he will tell you everything about the barefoot foot or as little as you want to know it is really up to you. He will spend as much or as little time as you want. He is an expert at nutrition as well.

The only reason that I stopped using Jamie is that I wanted someone nearer to home, who could come down when I needed someone and unfortnutaly he was just too far away from me.


and that is a direct quote from a public forum for all to see (rather than something fictitious you have made up to further your 'argument')

The horse has (and continues to have) a long history of laminitis, including rotated pedal bones, which we discussed at length including the pros and cons of lowering heels, boots, pads etc etc I have detailed notes to back this up and you should be ware of the increasing number of successful prosecutions for libel brought about because of malicious and untrue comments such as yours on the internet.

She was persuaded by your "good vet" to try imprints which your "good farrier" fitted at several hundreds of pounds a time. As I understand it she eventually got wise to being ripped off and sacked them both!

I think you know where you can stick your dueling pistol!

:fist:

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:07 pm

All,
Take a look gaitedhorsesense.com and read all post by rockymountainuk, i rest my case.

Regards,
E.W. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:25 pm

Jamie Hickman,

You must by now have read the thread in question, you can say sorry in your own time, what I printed on here was one of the same as on www.gatedhorsesense.com by rockymountainuk about your very self, you must have been hurting over it to come back with that bullshit.

Have a nice day,

E.W :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

slowhand
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby slowhand » Sat May 04, 2013 7:00 am

Out riding with 9 year old grandaughter last week when I passed a small paddock where I once shod two horses and stopped to talk to the owner who I hadn't seen for about 6 months and it appeared a farrier was in the yard. On enquiring who it was I was told that she was a Hoofcare Specialist and I noticed a green letter P on the back of her van, a 62 plate small Citroen. I asked about this and she said she had just passed her test 7 months previous and her dad insisted she put the P on. With that and the thought that she did look young I asked her age ...17 she replied with a big smile. It turns out she and her mother attended a course run by ' somebody with a name beginning with G' and at her mothers suggestion she and her mother set up in business as Hoofcare Specialists..both it turns out have new vans and tools for which they received grants and start up loans. She asked why my horse and pony were shod so I said he [the horse] is a 17 hands thoroughbred with wide flat feet and could not cope with stoney ground but as the pony was a Welshie he could possibly go barefoot. She said my horse could go barefoot too and she could remove the shoes for me and prove it. I pointed out that I had owned him since he was 4 years old, he's now 14, and in that time he has hunted, point to point, raced under rules and has never been able to go without shoes and during the summer he is unshod but cannot walk up our driveway to the yard without the usual ouch! ouch! ouch! She still insisted that she could solve the problem but was too busy this month and was about to look in her diary, not taking no for an answer , when the horseowner told her that I had been her farrier for 40 years until I retired 2 years ago, at that she got into the van and left...£70 better off [ two trims @ £35 ] took all of 15 mins for both and only used a rasp but had a full farriers tool box, new van, fully trained and only 17 ! Why would any young lad want to put up with all the hard work to be a farrier when she seems to be making a good living for doing F**K ALL !

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Sun May 26, 2013 8:58 am

es:- No I've not read your 'thread in question'. I don't need to, I know the truth.

and the truth is I've only now come back to this forum and only really to see if there is any comment about the recent OFSTEAD report on farriery training, which I would suggest is far more interesting and relevant than your libelous rantings.

Do you really spend you life hovering over this forum waiting for comments from the likes of me? How sad! Get a life. As I spend mine outside, under horses we probably have much more in common than you might think... I find it hard to believe you feel so threatened by me. I for one am bored with this and have better things to do...

Slowhand:- So... your saying we can get a grant for a new van and tools? Great! Where from?

:grin:

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Wed May 29, 2013 6:41 pm

Jamiep
It takes a man to say sorry, you have been abusive and used liable threats in your posting and still can't bring your self to admit you are in the wrong.

As grants go these are for start up not for people that claim to be working full time, I would have thought you might have seen that for your self with all them brains you have.

Best of luck stay safe and be lucky.


Regards,

E.W.

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:50 pm

Lol!

It's Jaimep.... not Jamiep.

It does indeed and I would be more than happy to apologise if it was due.

And once again I'm not quite sure what your point is in all this. To prove I am fallible? I'll save you the trouble... of course I am! We all are, are we not?

I'm sure you would agree that if a client has an issue with the service provided by any professional working on their horse then, in the first instance, they should take that issue up with them directly. If they are still not satisfied then there should be some further recourse to conciliation preferably provided by some informed, governing or professional body.

For me and other EP's see http://www.epauk.org/complaint.php which incidentally proves at least some of your untruths in previous posts.

In this particular case, whilst the client was persuaded to go down the Imprint route (which I understand she later regretted) I am unaware of anything but thanks and praise for my work.

I have the records on file and should you be able to obtain the clients permission I would be happy to go through the case in detail with you, particularly as I know exactly what I think the problem is/was. As an experienced farrier, I wonder what you might make of it. As I am sure you know from your thorough research there have been (to my knowledge) at least 6 (probably more) hoofcare professionals involved with that particular horse, including a couple of renowned (and extremely good IMO) farriers. Several years on and it would seem that the owner is still 'looking for a good farrier'...with I believe some unpleasant things said about those that tried to help her... I wonder if you might consider why this particular horse was used as a broodmare only, right up until the time that this first time owner bought her to use as a riding horse? I wonder if you have ever come across a client who, blinded by their desire to achieve a dream; ignores, mishears, or misunderstands good advice and the reality of the situation, especially when they are given false hope by those that really should know better.

As you say, stay safe bro...

:wink:

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:24 pm

My advise to you is don't offer false hope to people in future, that way they won't write bad things about you.

Regards,

E?W. :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:38 am

Good God, you really do sit there and wait for me to post don't you? ... How utterly sad. Why? What is your problem?

As for 'offering false hope' erm.. I don't... Can you really do no better than offer my own words back to me?

Anyway I'm sure our dear readers (If there are any left, I notice this forum is pretty much dead nowadays, shame there has been some good sport) are bored beyond belief by now.

Let's see if you can manage to not have the last word for once...

Toodles..

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:54 am

btw it's libel... not liable. You clearly don't understand the difference; or the implication.

Keep on digging bro!

It occurs to me that your intention in pursuing this apparent vendetta is to damage my reputation and perhaps even lose me work? Although quite why I'm not sure, as to my knowledge I haven't done you any harm. It amuses me to note therefore that, bazaar as it may seem, I appear to have gained at least one new client on the strength of this thread alone!

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:27 pm

I hope you gain a second customer and wish you all the best.

E.W.

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:15 pm

Ah but you do not, do you? As many of your postings demonstrate.

"Never judge another man's work untill (sic) the day comes were (sic) your work be perfect, besure (sic) that day will never come" Your own words I believe?

It seems however that you are either brighter, or now better informed than you appear. So let us rest our cases?

Four more this week just gone as it happens, my problem is keeping the numbers manageable...

So much for "barefoot" being a "fad that will not last"...

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:31 pm

Great news keep up the good work.

Regards,

E.w.

Wotsit
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Wotsit » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:39 am

Sadly I notice a lot of these evangelical Barefoot/podiatrists/foot-butchers, call them what you will, hawking their wares around a lot of the horsey forums. A lot of the folk using these forums are very novice, new pony keepers and often thrashing from one bit of advice to another.

I have yet to see ANY barefoot practitioner admit that some horses simply cannot manage without shoes. It's the farrier's fault, it's the trim, it's the diet, it's the wrong mineral balance on your land. It's the owner's fault for not doing the correct transitioning work.

What is a new pony keeper to think?

I have both shod and unshod horses. We don't use boots, wraps or other gubbins these barefooters use in the desperate attetmpt to make an unshod horse sound.If they go without shoes and are sound then that's fine. The second they show that the wear on the foot cannot keep pace with the work we shoe, yes we nail nasty cruel bits of metal onto our sore horses and lo and behold, they go sound! Some are simply miserable without shoes, so, summer and winter they are shod.

Really, it isn't rocket science, but the evangelical manner in which these folk behave worries me.

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:50 pm

I'd hate to prove you wrong Wotsit but I 'admit' it. Some horses, in some situations, go better with shoes. It's probably not as many as you might think (1-2 in a 100) but every now and then I'll advise a client to find the best farrier around, shoe the horse and get on with it. There is usually a good reason why it isn't working but as you say, if the horse is miserable, and the owner is miserable... Shoeing a horse isn't the worst thing you could do with it.

the evangelical manner in which these folk behave worries me.

I couldn't agree more. They do me no favours...

Now can you admit that shoes are detrimental to horses feet? Most good farriers I know would.

Wotsit
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Wotsit » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:10 am

Motorcycle helmets are bad for your scalp and hair, badly fitting shoes are bad for human feet. Wearing rubber gloves all day and hand sanitizer are bad for you too.
Shoes might be bad for the foot, but they are bloody good for the horse as a whole.

If a horse is well shod from an early age why would you want to limit his working ability by taking shoes away from him when he can work well and sound into his late 20's without a single issue? Barefoot (and I don't mean a horse unshod wearing clodhopping boots) might be fine for the hobby rider who only rides 3-4 times a week for an hour or so. for the serious competitor/ professional in the UK there are few, if any at the top of their game without shoes.

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:48 pm

I do not disregard anything you have said out of hand (except perhaps the bit about motorcycle helmets, 40 years of wearing them hasn't done my hair or scalp any harm).

I'm curious, as you agree shoes are bad for the foot, how can the be good for the whole of the horse exactly?

If you shoe a horse from an early age you will compromise the development of the feet, that is why many good (all?) farriers will advise to keep the horse without shoes for as long as possible.

Even if the feet are allowed to develop correctly (i.e. not shod until the horse is fully mature, 7-8 years) it is commonly understood that shoes are detrimental, that is why farriers recommend that shoes are taken off whenever possible 'for the feet to recover' or 'for the feet to have a rest'.

Indeed if a horse has it has been shod all it's life a horse may well struggle to cope without shoes but think what it's potential might have been if it had not been.

The fact remains that if you can get everything else right, the vast majority of horses do not need to be shod, and as the great farrier once said “why would you put shoes on them unless you had to?”

You may not see many serious competitors without shoes, but the number is steadily increasing
and as time goes on I predict you will see more and more... after all the 'fad' of barefoot trimming doesn't seem to have petered out yet..far from it.

Why the objection to boots btw? (apart from the aesthetic one which is subjective after all).If a shoe is to protect the bottom of a horses foot surely a boot does the job even better? Without the downside.

Wotsit
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Wotsit » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:58 pm

do not disregard anything you have said out of hand (except perhaps the bit about motorcycle helmets, 40 years of wearing them hasn't done my hair or scalp any harm).


hobby biker too!

jaimep
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby jaimep » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:16 am

Who me?

I've ridden bikes as my everyday transport for most of my life, I didn't own a car until my 30's and I'm still affiliated to a couple of ..well let's describe them as, moderately serious lifestyle biker clubs (backpatch, if you know anything about that world). I've owned up to 9 bikes at a time and still have several.

If you call that a 'hobby biker' then ok.

Peace and love bro.

8)

Italian stallion
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby Italian stallion » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Hi wotsit,
I agree with everything you say, you made some great points, when one of these barefooters turn up to trim a horse wearing no shoe himself then and only then might I think there could be something in all this bullshit.

Regards,

E.W.

slowhand
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 6:28 pm

Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby slowhand » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:39 am

We have a new barefooter in our area seems females are drawn to this job. Saw at first hand leather gloves, eye protectors, back brace and a riding helmet...she had 3 to trim and simply drew each foot onto the hoofstand and holding the rasp vertical to the ground ran it around each foot and I timed it...1 min 20 sec on average per foot.....she arrived at the livery yard at 1.35 pm and left at 2.10 pm with 90 quid in her pocket I believe she has booked the re-visit for 4 weeks time and one of the ladies using her reckons after 6 pm she charges 50 quid and doubles it for weekends. She attended a 3 day course run by a german bloke which cost her 325 quid You can't knock that for easy money !!!:

George Geist
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Re: Barefoot trimmer not equine podaitrist

Postby George Geist » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:03 am

That website the earlier individual kept harping about is all in Chinese or Japanese or something like that. So much for their taking control of an industry through sophistry and lack of oversight and regulation when they can't even maintain a website.
George


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